Celtic Banter Archive April 16 2019

16 Apr 2019 22:54:21
We've just made a deal with a mid table polish club to take on any of there youngsters that we deem as promising. This along with our USA and Australian set ups seem to be the beginning of us setting up a network that works. We've seen this within a lot of top European clubs Ajax, Porto etc. Long may the links continue to foreign countries that develop different talent to what we can find here in Scotland. I still think we should be targeting African countries more often. The red bull clubs have a keen interest in Mali and places like that and always seem to find diamonds in the rough. Hopefully we begin reaping the benefits in years to come. This may grant a bright future.

17 Apr 2019 10:20:21
We need to change our policy altogether. Look at Ajax last night, all they done was spend a little money.

Not like Celtic fans who say we need to spend £500 million.

Ajax spent £45 million. Sold £15mil. £30mil spend

Now even if they just qualify for the group's and never won a single game they would earn £10 million profit

Yet some of our fans claim we "can't afford" to do that?

Others say spending £30 mil wouldn't make a difference in Europe.

Ajax were going cheap and changed it up, now they are in the semis.

{Ed007's Note - It's really not as simple as that when you take into account the money spent over the years to get Ajax to where they are. Look at the opposite side of the coin where Man Utd spent £100+ million on Pogba and £90 million on Lukaku (Mourinho alone spent over £300 million on players) and went out of Europe so spending over £200 million on two players (Ajax spent 14 million Euros on Daley blind and 12 million on Tadic) can't guarantee you success, Juventus spending over 110 million Euros on Ronaldo hasn't improved them in Europe and what will they have to show for it - they'll need to settle for an 8th league tittle on the trot the same as us.}

17 Apr 2019 11:28:00
KenLike a used to think the same mate but apparently it’s the work permits that’s the problem for us.

17 Apr 2019 11:37:04
exactly ED we’ll put. What people forget is we did spend 9m on French Eddy and he scored our most important goals in Europe this season along with Forrest. We spend another few million on players and develop our youth squad there’s no reason why we can not challenge better teams. This is probably our best squad since Larson and Co. let’s not forget that. We can build on this squad “if” we sign the right players. It’s time for a clean up at the back and I hope the boats back us in defence.

17 Apr 2019 11:46:11
Aye ed but some people who don't smoke get lung cancer. Doesn't mean people should never quit.

Fact in football is that although there isn't a guarantee in spending that it does in fact improve your chances of you are willing to push the boat out.

Also aye Ajax spent in other seasons but they have not spent on a level that we also couldn't afford.

Nobody is asking for a semi final but to actually make th groups regularly with a few respectable performances.

We already outspend most sides we face in qualifiers and being willing to push that out should get us qualification most seasons.

{Ed007's Note - But you said Ajax were going cheap and changed it, they were spending millions season season on youth development etc so they weren't going cheap, they just used their money elsewhere. Have a read at THIS: Look at the facilities they have at their academy, the amount of scouts and coaches they have etc.}

17 Apr 2019 11:47:56
I would buy just three players Sanchez, Alvarez from Mexico and Mckenna { love him or hate him } try to resign Weah and Burke with an option to buy and work with what we have; after a good clear out of those not good enough.

17 Apr 2019 12:10:21
Ed is right as is Tesla, it's down to who u sign, the manager and current squad. If we had signed Benko, Burke, Weah and Toljan permanently it would have cost us, conservatively £25m - £30m. And we would still struggle to qualify for CL. No easy short term answer but one thing in our favour is that most of our star performers look settled - KT, CalMac, JF, Ajer, OE.

17 Apr 2019 12:20:19
A few weeks ago I mentioned Eric Ten Hag as possible target and although Ajax would want to keep him, I think it's worth a punt?

17 Apr 2019 13:10:29
I said that a month ago OAB. He is one of Peps disciples. Not getting him now though.

17 Apr 2019 13:32:00
Using Ajax to say it works but totally over looking Manchester city to show that spending doesn't always mean anything.
They must have spent over a billion and ain't even reached a final.
Ajax are reaping the rewards of all the work they put in behind the scenes plus Using the money they do spend wisely.

17 Apr 2019 13:39:44
We should really be looking at the Dutch league a bit more I think I always thought Steven bergwijn would have been a good get for us and relatively cheap a couple seasons ago. Now you’re looking at 20m.

17 Apr 2019 18:19:55
Some teams spend a fortune and have little success to show for it, others spend very little and are very successful. All this demonstrates is that neither strategy will guarantee success or failure. That is why well run teams base their budgets on sustainability in line with their income streams. That’s what Celtic do. Other teams will spend money that they can’t afford in the hope that they’ll have success on the pitch which will then translate into increased revenue. That’s what Rangers did and now Sevco are doing. We all know how it ended for Rangers. We can only guess at how it will end up for Sevco. I’ll be quite happy for us to continue with our strategy as it seems to be working well. Yes, there will be other clubs in a similar position to us who from time to time, punch above their weight and make the semis or even the final of the big cup, but that happens. When we got to Seville, there were probably a significant amount of teams around Europe who spent more money than us on players but didn’t achieve our success that season. We can’t keep comparing ourselves to every club in a similar situation to us who has a bit of success every now and then and wondering why we’re not doing it. We put Ajax out of the CL in 2001. Every wee dug has it’s day and for the moment it’s Ajax. I think we should all just be happy that there’s a club in the semis that’s not from one of the big 5 countries.

17 Apr 2019 18:26:18
I never said they were going cheap recently. But they were going cheap a while ago and it didn't work. They went backwards .

Then they decided to spend. They spent wisely within their financial capability and as a result massively progressed.

We on the other hand are spending way under what we can actually afford. We should be trying to operate like Ajax or say benfica

Instead of us spending like a small Scandinavian side.

{Ed007's Note - Yeah having 13 teams at different ages all with their own coaching team, 50 odd scouts in Holland alone, a state of the art academy and training centre for the 200+ players on their books was them going cheap.
That's the problem with some Celtic fans, if Peter Lawwell came out and said the Club was investing half the money we have in the bank on upgrading Lennoxtown and the academy they would all be moaning that it should be spent on 1 or 2 signings for the CL next year, it's that kind of shortsightedness that is holding the whole of Scottish football back.}

17 Apr 2019 20:34:20
I’m standing by the fact that we definetley have to invest more into the youth set up and glad we are doing so. We can hand pick talent at the Ntcham mark. He’s one of our better midfielders and we picked him up for a nice fee. If we can continue that we will be set. A couple of young defenders around the 5m mark and we will be strong at the back again. We will spend this summer i guarantee it. Think we’re having a clear out and freshening the squad up. We will be rid of 10+ players that are somewhat fringe. Allan, Gamboa, Izzy, hendry? De vries? Gordon? compper?

{Ed007's Note - It's the way to go for us, Ken. Have a nucleus of the team that has came through the ranks to the level of KT, McGregor and now Forrest, throw in the odd SPL player like Bain, Hayes, Morgan & Christie and then strengthen the rest of the squad with the money we have on Edouard, Ntcham even Dembele quality. Even loaning players like Roberts for a couple of seasons - not 6 month shots - worked out well for us.
I was talking to someone earlier on - yes I do talk to other people away from here
- but would you be happy if our 3 strikers next season were Edouard, a fully fit & focused LG and Timo Weah on another loan? What about a first choice CB pairing of Ajer and a quality new signing with Jozo and even Bitton/Lustig covering when suitable (lower SPL games). From where we are just now and thinking forward how about this team moving forward over the next couple of years....

----------------Bain or better--------------
New RB---Ajer---New CB---Tierney---
-------McGregor---Christie----
Forrest------Powell?------NewLW
-------------Edouard-------

Throw in Conor Hazard, Shved, Armstrong Okoflex Karamoko Dembele, Ralston, Johnston, Arzani etc etc and we have the basis of a really strong squad. It won't cost us much to keep up our domination of Scotland but it's whether the board are willing to push on to take us to the next level, I know the next level for me wouldn't be good enough for some others. Over the years I have consistently said we should be aiming for European football after Christmas, either the CL last 16 or EL Round of 32 and I know we've been doing that but it's scraping through. Anyone can get pumped by Barca or PSG - teams at that level even pump each other - but it's the teams we 'know' we should be beating and competing with that we continually let ourselves down against.}

17 Apr 2019 22:16:41
Completely agree ED. Well put again. If we did bring in Powell that would be absolutely outstanding. I understand we have been in contact and hope that the fact Rodgers left hasn’t scuppered that. But my understanding is that the appeal of CL or EL football is what Powell is after. If we brought him in I’m sure that’s No10 roll would be less of an issue than it is now. Shved also looks like an outsanding prospect. Perfect competition for Forrest. Once we get the basis set we should be challenging at a higher level to what we do now. That squad looks better than most other teams we face in Europe bar the big leagues. Hopefully a change of fortunes next season.

{Ed007's Note - Celtic's interest in Powell goes back to Lennon's first stint as manager and maybe even before that. For me the No.10 is one of the weakest positions, it's not McGregor or Christie's best position for me and Rogic just doesn't do it often enough.}

17 Apr 2019 22:26:55
Ed is there still genuine interest in Powell? I hope so. Getting players of that quality on a free would be brilliant business.

{Ed007's Note - Yes mate.}

17 Apr 2019 22:37:44
I never knew that. With the wage bill cutting and a lot of fringe players leaving then we really should push the boat out for him. Get a few players in the positions you mentioned ED and move on from there. We’re only a few players and an injury free season away from decent results in Europe. IMO.

{Ed007's Note - 👍

18 Apr 2019 00:50:03
Kev. How can you actually sit there and say man city are not an example that spending brings success

Spending might not guarantee MAXIMUM success such as a champions League

But you tell me before they got money how many EPL titles Shaun goater or Paul dickov won with man city?

The fact they are even in the champions League is.

BECAUSE they got money.

= That money does guarantee success. Just not maximum success every year.

That's the reason Celtic and rangers Dominate Scotland for years and not Stirling Albion.

17 Apr 2019 22:45:16
Nice one thanks Ed. Just sent you an email, news that's too hot for here haha. don't worry about replying tonight just when you get a chance. HH.

{Ed007's Note - 👍

18 Apr 2019 00:47:29
Ed you have totally went out your way to skew what I've been saying.

Ajax make similar revenue. Some years we have made more.

Anything they do, we can afford to replicate. Simple as that.

Doesn't matter if it's youth set ups or signings. We can afford to do it and don't.

The fact we haven't is down to the board. The opinions of fans being shortsighted is totally irrelevant as boards don't sign off on things based on a punters moaning.

Simple as that. More desperate deflection from people who can't accept the fact we are choosing to be a smaller club than we are.

{Ed007's Note - I didn't skew your words, you're not making any sense any more. Didn't you write:

"Ajax were going cheap and changed it up, now they are in the semis."

Even though they were in the EL Final 2 years ago or is that too recent to count consider you then wrote:

"I never said they were going cheap recently. But they were going cheap a while ago and it didn't work. They went backwards ."

So when and on what exactly are you saying Ajax "were going cheap" on and what did they change?

www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam/transferrekorde/verein/610

18 Apr 2019 12:59:12
My main point was never about when Ajax were going cheap

My main point is that anything Ajax can afford to do then so can we.

Our board are keeping us under with their useless method. Unambitious and too safe.

You just keep going on about when Ajax went cheap even though it's not the main issue.

In the last 3-4 seasons they have raised the bar in investing in their squad and it's proven to work.

So why shouldn't we? When we can afford to do so?

Simply because people are happy to settle with just being better than rangers.

{Ed007's Note - This is mind-boggling stuff! The entire conversation is about the money Ajax spent last summer, their comparable income to ours and you saying they had gone cheap and now they're not of course I'm going on about, that's because I want to know what you meant, it's not a difficult question is it? What did they go cheap on? These figures are only rough but in the ball park:

Season 18/19 45 million
Season 17/18 26 million
Season 16/17 32 million
Season 15/16 22 million

That's £125 million spent on their squad over the last four years and that's got them to a EL final and now a CL Semi. That roughly works out at us qualifying for the CL every year and spunking our entire earnings from it on transfer fees alone, and that's without taking into account all the other costs involved in transfers like taxes, agent fees etc etc.
Now if you had said "Our board are keeping us under with their useless method. Unambitious and too safe." I'd have totally agreed with you 100%, it's the comparison to Ajax simply because we have roughly the same income etc that's a nonsense. It would take us years and millions of pounds to get to where they are now behind the scenes - then when we do get there we'd find they'd also moved forward.
As I said earlier, there's fans that think every penny we get in should be spent on transfers whereas I believe we should invest more than we do in our scouting, coaches, Lennoxtown & our academy etc and producing more players like KT, McGregor and now Forrest. Then any money we spend can be on having 3/4 players who can take the team to the next level, Celtic do spend money - maybe not enough as we'd all like - but we haven't spent it wisely enough imo.
Basically it looks like all you're saying is Ajax spent more money than us on transfers last summer and that you want to have a pop at the board because of it.}

16 Apr 2019 15:47:07
Hi Eds what’s your thoughts on this. Paddy Bonner has said that Celtic if they are giving the job to Lennon do it now so he knows and he can use the rest of the season to bed in his thoughts on how to play across to the players and prepare for next season the squad going forward. That to me make sense so with Celtic not doing that now indicates to me ( only my opinion) that Lennon is not Celtics main choice what’s do use think?

{Ed007's Note - We're going for a Treble Treble and as Neil Lennon has said this isn't the time to go making drastic changes when the players are so used to playing Rodgers system.}

16 Apr 2019 17:31:53
Seems Celtic have 2 players in the top scoring midfielder in European leagues this season. James forrest and scott sinclair.

16 Apr 2019 12:11:56
The next couple of years in scottish football is going to to be bedlam.
No doubt there is going to be strange decisions coming from the top of the sfa, compliance officer, John Fleming appointments and the referees and not forgetting sevco fans and media having a total meltdown.
Not forgetting the high expectations from Celtic fans to get the 10 in a row.
That is a lot for even an experienced manager with years of experience, who will probably get a least verbally abused on a daily basis. If he is foreign it will be a lot to take in what he has actually got himself into, with the whole country against you and your club.
With Neil Lennon its water of a ducks back, there is pressure on Lenny every time he goes out his own front door but he has shown with age and experience that he can handle it.
Let our leader Neil Lennon take us to the 10.

16 Apr 2019 13:31:05
I can understand what you're saying and you can sense the fear and panic from all quarters. I remember the original 9-in-a-row, when they suffered so much; they even re-organised Scottish football.
These days it's 10 times worse because of the liquidation and birth of TRIFC 2012 and the resentment on both sides of the corruption.
In the 60's/ 70's it was all down to one man - Big Jock, but here we have a team that has seen four managerial changes in seven years and the next full-time appointment has got to be able to handle every aspect of the job. The good, the bad and the jiggery-pokery.
I really hope the Board get it right?

16 Apr 2019 10:14:44
Whilst we stand on the brink of a treble treble, im not sure our squad has improved over the last 3 years. BR brought in loads of players but way more misses than hits. How many of his signings start week in week out. Bain, OE and either SS or JH. that's about it. Even all his recent signings, Bayo, Burke, Toljan, Weah and Benko are struggling for time. Hopefully the new manager will go down the route of quality players for the here and now - no more projects please.

16 Apr 2019 10:26:41
Celtic fans need to get use to the fact that our model is to buy players with potential, make them better and then sell them on.

16 Apr 2019 11:55:16
Kev83, I accept that. But the guys we signed in the past at least made it into the squad or 11 when signed, Ki, VVD, Wanyama, Moussa etc. Spending £2m on a CF (Bayo) who can't get close to our squad and is behind some of our teenagers seems a bit bizzare?

16 Apr 2019 13:52:12
Chinks for every one of they players there was one who didn't make it. That's the nature of the beast am afraid.
As for bayo he's injured with a ripped muscle and won't play this season, so of course youngsters are ahead of him.

16 Apr 2019 19:53:20
FFS what is wrong with you Chinks, we’re on the brink of a treble, treble and you’re banging on about flaws in our recruitment. Is there any possible level of success we could achieve that would stop you from moaning about something?

16 Apr 2019 23:13:00
COYBIG You are spot on, Our transfer policy has served us well, on the verge of a treble treble, means we must be getting most things right . I imagine most clubs are never satisfied with all their signings and would like different players for certain places . Celtic of course know that, just as well as the fans, but it's not always possible to get everyone . Thankfully Celtic have filled most holes.