25 Feb 2013 23:36:34
Theres been a lot made about chants etc and we have all had our say to a degree but There are still issues to be addressed for me and this is the use of chants, banners or general public displays in relation to free speech and what being offended really is.
Being offended is a tough one as its so variable. One person may be offended, hurt, upset at something whilst another laughs it off and treats a stupid comment as a stupid comment and no more. Wether these views or ways at treating comment, song or sign is learned via upbringing, experience, war, religion etc or wether its more innate and is a natural state for humans to be, I don't really know. Which leads me to ask how do we ever truly deem what is offensive and what is not? As this debate ranges further than football.
Free speech of course comes with all and any viewpoints allowed to be spoken, but does limiting the places we can say these thoughts or feelings really limit the offence we end up feeling sometimes when these thoughts are aired? As although they may not be sung somewhere or shouted in a street it can always surface elsewhere or manifest itself in sometimes atrocious acts of violence or poor pieces of writing by unknown people or songs at a football match. Add to this low intelligence or as I prefer to call it, poor education (and I don't mean what school you went too), then outbursts like these seen recently and in the past are repeated time and time again as still people never get brought up to know any better.
We are generally an aggressive race, yet always throughout history we have never given ourselves enough outlets except each other which ultimately ends up in disgusting goading at one end and violence at the other, both of which designed to gain by another's anguish or disgust and gain what exactly?. Recent events like the weekends bring this into sharp focus. Sadly a lot of People harbour resentment and hatred and bile and they don't keep an open mind to a possible other opinion or even a simple sense on when to keep their mouth closed.
If you're being offended you can't always ignore it, it will make the ones doing it think its ok. You can't control people through ill thought out laws and heavy handed policing you add to the problem and likelihood of a flashpoint. You certainly cannot whip a crowd already with an inbuilt belief of greatness or almost superhuman status into a frenzy and have them believe grave injustice was done to them which they have no control over, when control was all they clung onto before. You cannot then instil a siege mentality into said group as somethings got to give surely?
Im not going to give answers to any of this as I fear the answers needed reach much further than making some clowns shut up whilst at a football match.
Evinguu {Ed007's Note - Welcome back Evinguu. How is the 'cloudy lemonade' experiment going?}
Celtic Banter Archive February 25 2013
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25 Feb 2013 22:06:15
Just been out for a beer with my mate, a bluenose, and inevitably the talk went to the singing of certain songs. On a personal level the sash, billy boys or derrys walls never got me all hot and bothered, and nothing we ever sung particularly upset him. Now we have been friends for close to 45 years, his son is my Godson and his late father was one of the finest gentlemen I ever met. We both sang the songs of hate when we were stupid and young, but it was never instilled into us by family members. And there lies the problem.
If you are stupid enough to drill this stuff into your kids heads then i'm afraid you are the problem. My family were, and still are staunch republicans, as I am, this is not anything to do with religion. This is about an invading force of soldiers murdering and torturing an indigenous people, many of which were relatives of mine. My Father hated the provisionals, he felt they were a mockery of the true freedom fighters, he was right. They bore no relation to "the wind that shook the barley", they were murdering innocent people in pubs and shopping centres. Can our IRA chanting crowd see that?
Not for one minute would I advocate not singing Irish songs, this is a major part of the make up of our club, we might not be here without it. We know what is acceptable, we do not need a book to tell us. But if someone is going to be offended by a song because it is Irish, then i'm sorry but they are the bigot. I mentioned my mates father earlier this is because of one thing. He was a protestant and a rangers fan. He was also a friend of my Dads, and could understand his view point on Ireland. He stopped going to matches around the mid to late seventies, his reason being that this sectarian chanting was taking over. He also warned that this ulster link would be a problem for rangers in the future. And this is the crux of my post, this has been happening for years unchecked. I hope decent rangers fans, like my mate and lots of yours, get their club back. Sadly I fear it might be a while yet.
As for us. My dad used to say to me "remember what you are and where you came from" that's enough for me. let's lead the way folks. green jhedi
25 Feb 2013 21:43:53
I listened to SSB tonight to hear the callers regarding Saturdays sing a long at Berwick. There was about two calls regarding the matter (both trfc fans slating the singing to be fair) but that was it. I am not wanting to make comparisons but after the Celtic v Dundee game in December we had every caller for the whole 2 hours of the show being allowed their opinion. I may be a little paranoid but do you think the callers may have been hand picked tonight. (ie only the ones with the right opinion being put on air)
67Coatbridge
25 Feb 2013 16:18:08
It's being reported that the fat sleekit slug mcmoist is wanting a list made of safe songs & ones which should not be sung? This shower are an embarrassment New club same old bigots & sectarianism still rife, no shame at all. Destroy & tarnish all of scottish football that's the newest club in Scotland, New club same old bigots! AbS
25 Feb 2013 14:59:23
ED007 hope you can help us.
Wee Pat and I are setting up another wee business venture, we have the premises and we have now bought the seats, sadly, as Tims, we do not know how to count them, can you put out an SOS for all the expert TRFC/ex bears reading this to help us in counting these seats. As usual Pat and I only use experts in our business ventures. Thanks for the help Timalloy/Wee Pat Enterprises Inc.
25 Feb 2013 11:11:18
The red tops have revealed that the The rangers will be "unlikely" to face charges over the sectarian singing in Berwick (record) and "will not" face charges (the sun). The reasons given just astound me. Because the The rangers acted swiftly to "condemn" the actions, this seems to be enough. Now I assume to write for a newspaper (?) you would have to have a grounding in English and grammar, So where in the statements did the The rangers or mccoist "condemn" the singing. The club were "disappointed" and mccoist claimed "IF it happened (a whole new level of denial there) and they were a bit out of order it was disappointing". I ask again, where is the condemnation? Even creepy gordon smith, who admitted to being raised as a bigot in his book, claims he has been at games this season and heard nothing but he "does not listen to singing. You don't have to listen to hear smith. So there we are Mr Salmond, over to you. Always ready to grab a microphone, we await your strongly worded very critical assessment of the damage done to the country you want to lead into a new dawn. Are you a leader Alex? I suspect you will be heard, just as soon as a spine donor can be found. Disgraceful. green jhedi
25 Feb 2013 11:09:24
The rangers international plc are now truly international as they have travelled over the border into England exporting their vile sectarian bigotry with them.
Note KJ is publishing Jabba's weekend homework. Quite sinister naming the SFA compliance officer, showing his photo and explicitly telling him what he can and cannot do. When will DR Editors do their job and start publishing honest reporting and neutral acceptable views?