20 Sep 2014 13:28:03
I know we were all happy the Europa League game didn't end in defeat but we were actually lucky with the point.

Salzburg had more possession and more shots at goal but yet we are to be optimistic of a result at Celtic Park - based on what?

We slated Neil Lennon for his inexperience and tactical crapness (justified at times) but I don't see anything different and if anything, its worse.

The team are disjointed, slow and uninterested.

Feel free to correct me and make me feel more optimistic

1.) 20 Sep 2014
You are totally right Mrs E. Now I not saying lennon was a tactical genius (far from it) but his team had fight and were much more fluent in attacking, and got the best out of what he had.RD for me is forcing a system on the players when it clearly doesn't suit.What manager does this? What I see out there at times is 11 individuals. His minimum requirement is to create a team, now that team might not be world beaters but at least its got to be a team.

2.) 20 Sep 2014
Not everybody slated NL.

3.) 20 Sep 2014
I know Jim but he will go down as - could have done better.

Rayman - older man in my work was saying that, the players just look like strangers. As if they have never met.

Obviously we do have new players but they need to gel and sharpish!

4.) 20 Sep 2014
NL seems like an incredibly motivational figure to me. RD doesn't. Mjallby's importance is not to be underestimated either.

5.) 20 Sep 2014
I agree Mrs E; we are well into September and we have not played well in most games and look like losing goals against every opponent.
The Dundee Utd victory, where we played with pace, style and aggression seems like a fluke and we look really out of place in Europe at the moment and that's a big worry.

Celtic teams usually start league campaigns very well and build up momentum and confidence going into the second round of matches.
However, I am puzzled and disappointed at our lack of cohesion and basic team spirit and wonder if there is more than communication problems and new arrivals.

RD has yet to convince me that he is the right man for the Celtic job, but I am prepared to be patient as long as I see improvement and progress.

JJ

6.) 20 Sep 2014
I honestly believe the crux of the whole problem this season is RD unwilliness to play three in midfield . Three players would shield the back four and protect our full backs . It would give the centre backs and midfielders more options to pass the ball.

7.) 20 Sep 2014
Totally agree JJ, there is no motivation or confidence about the team.

The only plus is having Scott Brown back who seems to be trying to take control of the situation at least on the park.

I'm prepared to give him a chance as well and don't like shouting for anyone's head but the natives will get very restless soon if there aren't improvements.

The Champions League would have been a horror show but still wish we had built on the team from 2 seasons ago!

8.) 20 Sep 2014
Our away form this season has been abysmal. When Neil Lennon was in charge we struggled away in Europe but domestically at least we could dominate teams on the road.
This season when playing away we can't seem to keep the ball, we are too easily shaken off the ball, and are struggling defensively.
I am not sure whether the players are at fault or if it's the manager's tactics.
I do know though that if it isn't sorted the season will be a failure.
How many of you would feel confident if we were to draw Aberdeen away in the cups, or even Rangers at Ibrox.

9.) 20 Sep 2014
What I feel about this team and manager are were too nice, there's no one that the other teams or fans hate which drives the players on, I felt the hatred towards Lenny made the players play in a " we'll show them" manner. We don't have that right now. imo

10.) 20 Sep 2014
"When Lennon was in charge we struggled away in Europe". Sorry Gerry but did lennon not have a better record away from home than Oneil and Strachan who had better teams and much better players.Mrs as I said your totally on the ball with this, though I have to say the players looked like strangers before the new signings played. Many on here were hypercritical o Lennon and his works in progress (sometimes justifyably) but what we can't have is a manager who is a work in progress.

{Ed007's Note - Deila has more coaching/management experience than NL had when he got the job, 6 years more experience. We had a rookie work in progress for the last four years and suddenly it's problem, so what's the difference?}

11.) 21 Sep 2014
Hi folks

Lots of good points but I agree with the sentiment that "results" can often hide what is a actually going on. Everything we think and say is supposition I guess but let us look at what we have.

A new goalie

A centre half who didn't start the season settled due to "want away" rumours.

Another centre half drafted in (19 years old with no first team competitive action) to partner the unsettled centre half

The young CB was drafted in because of inept performances in the same position by the hapless Ambrose and the wholly ineffective Mulgrew

The only other CB option (Lustig injured)

Our LB position has been a perennial problem now for around 2 years with the low in morale, unfocused Emilio hogging the position all to himself; we have no other options there (beyond the injured Mulgrew), but in RD's formation, Mulgrew wouldn't do the role justice either because he has no attacking prowess whatsoever; a good left foot but can you picture Chuck overlapping and hitting the bye line. The weird thing about Izzy is that he can and does get top and down the park, but he seems to be exposed as a pure LB too often (whereas Mulgrew wouldn't); the "system" thus keeps IZZY in the team but a new LB should have been a TOP PRIORITY; it wasn't

At right back we have Efe due to injuries to Lustig and Matthews (who as well as being oft injured is low in morale and "homesick"), so we have a big issue over there too, Efe at right back (!) the only player in the world cup to achieve a consensus of opinion that HE IS NO RIGHT BACK; but Efe doesn't pick himself.

Brown's absence (and subsequent return) actually told us a lot about our "strong department" and that is that IT ISN'T TERRIBLY STRONG. If it was, we wouldn't have missed him so badly and WE DID. Biton, Kayal and Johansen have not brought CFC on in any way. Kayal just will not go forward (making him easy to play against) and Biton just hasn't advanced. Johansen STILL represents a prospect, but we should dispel the myth NOW, we are no strong in the middle of the park. A strong middle would mean a (1) good in possession middle a (2) tough tackling middle) a (3) goal threat from the middle and (4) a middle that protects our middle rearguard; it doesn't do this.

We have a loan winger who has hardly kicked a ball in anger in 18 months and could now be looking at an 18 match ban! Another loanee from a relegated EPL team who would struggle to outpace Big Daddy in a 100 yard dash. We then have the oft injured Forrest who can be effective but is entirely unreliable due to fitness; £10m indeed! We then have big Derk, oops I forgot. He is out with a knee knock which he must have endured during a shopping trip to Frasers because it didn't come from a spinet or a tackle; maybe it was that vicious assault at McDiarmid Park when he was assaulted from the rear (hmmm). We have the bhoy MCGREGOR and that represents a little ray of sunshine. Wakuso cannot be commented upon but we have to hope that a Ghanaian chased out of a mediocre Russian outfit surpasses expectations because if expectations are met, we will be disappointed such are our expectations.

Up top, in support of the LONE STRIKER we have KC but his emotions must be all over the place. He is in and out and then out some more and then in and then out, and then he is made vice captain. Mr Commons plays so long as we persevere with this system but no one can tell me that he is "settled" and enjoying his football. No chance.

In the striker department we have Stokes (hmmm.) and Griffiths (AWOL), but have drafted in the loanee from Man City (JC) and the Serb Scepovic who has been advised to hit the gym and build himself up; it's weird that he cuts it in Spain but doesn't have the stature to met the demands of the ultra-competitive SPL (hmmm. )

CFC are currently something resembling a "shambles", lacking any real sense of cohesiveness and all round calm. We don't know what CFC are going to serve up next but we have to read a double page spread about AWOL players (Griffiths) with the ex-school teacher talking about the 24 hour athlete and exercise and diet and players wanting to improve and be curious.

I am curious RD; what about putting a team on the park that can be 90 minute athletes first and foremost. When we crack that we can then maybe demand that they build up to 2 hour athletes and then 3 hour athletes. And here is another wee tip. How's about 2 strikers at home or WAIT FOR IT, a 1st eleven (injuries aside) that means your best players on the park and a "loose" system to fit around them instead of this top down "forced" system which yields ultra-weird performances lacking in any "pattern" or "tempo"; of course RD sees things that please him "during games", BUT ALL WE WANT IS A DECENT 90 MINUTES where our team fights and growls and presses and probes and WAIT FOR IT …passes from a CFC player to another …….and then….another (okay maybe 3 consecutive passes s too much to ask for so we will settle for 2…) and hope that our 90 minute athletes can have reasons to be careful as we get set for autumn and winter football….

In RD we trust …(…scratching our heads)….

Don't overcomplicate it too much RD; a team on the park blowing domestic opposition away at Celtic Park …please

{Ed007's Note - To be fair to Wakaso, the reason he left Russia was racism, and not just from the stands.}

12.) 21 Sep 2014
Are you lot for real does none of you remember sitting watching Lennys team at the start or has that time slipped away and been forgotten about? The killie game? A draw to save his job as he said, mama Mia have a word like, new guy has the experience in management maybe not highest Level but he's put a shift in to improve himself and IMO deserves a chance, new players just getting time on pitch now or has that been forgot about too? We should back the team the now and give them some time KTF

{Ed007's Note - Good job you never mentioned NL's cup record, we're not allowed to talk about that on here.}

13.) 21 Sep 2014
The difference ed is you got to get results, this guy aint. Lennon took over a team with no confidence. RD had a team of experienced CL qualifiers.He been beaten by 1 average team (Legia) and a poor team (Maribor).And if he got 6 years more experience than lennon had, well he defo not showin it.He has made rookie mistake after rookie mistake.All he seems to be concerned about is Commons fitness.Yet he puts players in the team who are clearly not fit.

{Ed007's Note - What important results did NL get in his first 18 months?}

14.) 21 Sep 2014
Good point well made ed wtf are these folk on who only see Lenny as the guy who beat Barca? A lot of his time was under severe pressure mostly out with football and he did do a good job over his time for the club in the league, apart from that I just don't see it cups and euro games (one season apart) we was poor, away form and knowing his best team I'm still not convinced, now he is saying it wasn't his fault players drank coke and ate poorly at training ground, my hero as a player with his passion and fight every match but as a manager I shall pass on that one. Now we are blaming a guy who hasn't had time yet and is now just getting his own players on park, he talks well and doesn't just blame players for not doing it he says I was wrong but I will fix it he takes the critics and answers them, I for one will give him time to get his ideas and own team on park, sick hearing how bad ronny is compared to Lenny when really how can you judge him already? KTF

15.) 21 Sep 2014
21 Sep 2014 10:51:15
Rubens I am not comparing Ronnie to Lennon. I don't think anyone above us is putting that question forward. That's not what the debate is about. The issue is clear. Ronnie is trying to introduce a style of play that is not being understood or implemented by the players and watching it is difficult. Ronnie talks about starting strongly and not giving a goal away straight after we score, but we look as though we are going to give a goal away every time the opposition get into our half. It's nothing to do with a lack of concentration it's about a lack of system. The best anyone can say is give Ronnie time. There is NOTHING I have seen in the last 6 games that tells me anything is starting to work. So it's nothing to do with who is the best manager between NL and RD, the debate is, is RD a manager at all?

16.) 21 Sep 2014
Ruban the Killie 3-3 game was not at the start, it was more than 18 months into his Managerial career.

He was the Manager in March 2010 and went on an unbeaten run in the league but as was to become usual, he was beaten by Ross County in the Scottish Cup. The following season we were in the League and Scottish Cup finals and the SPL went to the last day but the fans were right behind him, all you have to do it remember the crowd on the last day v Motherwell.

Anyhoo i'm not disagreeing with your points, all I'm saying is Ronny does not seem to be showing any more awareness (tactically or otherwise) than Neil Lennon did. NL had no experience, took over a team low on confidence and getting thumped 4-0 by St Mirren. Ronny has experience and i'm just not sure. I want a Manager who is better than Neil Lennon, a good bit better and I just don't see it but I'm trying to be patient.

I never mentioned Barca but seen as you have, what a night :-)

17.) 21 Sep 2014
Whats this about Griffiths being AWOL.?

18.) 21 Sep 2014
To Ed,

I didn't realise the racism slant with Wakuso, let's hope he isn't room sharing with Alexander Tonev

On Lennon versus Dalia, this thread is not about any of this

Point on KC fitness, and Griffiths being the 24 hour athlete, and yet Scepovic hits the papers to say he is at 80%! If Scepovic is playing at 80% and Stokes is bombed out, that I wouldn't like to be Stokes (confidence now shot to pieces)

Maybe RD will work this out and get a team on the park that appears motivated, hungry, organised, disciplined but I AM NOT SEEING ANY DISCERNIBLE PROGRESS WHATSOEVER

To Ruben, a competitive "domestic" team is not a huge ask.

I have noticed something however and this is where there could be a "clash" arising. RDS talks about possession and pace and Celtic have never really had the latter. But do Celtic "progress" domestically with pace in the team when opponents sit in? Where does pace get you when everyone you play against sits so deep. In europe, home and away it could be quite effective and wide pace is what is forcing this one up top business and one in support.

Maybe (weirdly) we will have a more dangerous team in Europe but the compromise is that we will be less effective domestically as we hone skills that are less relevant to the domestic scene…

…just a thought ….

19.) 21 Sep 2014
The debate is, is RD a manager at all?

Your off your head, after Lennon's first year did you think he was a manager? After the various cup embarrassment's did you still think he was a manager?

We beat Barcelona ( one game ) and it seems that the many failures provided by Lennon's Celtic gets forgotten about. let's not forget, Barcelona hammered us at home that night, Xavi miss kicked a ball and we scored from it, Forster like he did in many Euro games saved us from a beating. Lennon first away win against notable Euro opposition was against Spartak, after they got a player sent off otherwise they were comfortably beating us.

Neil Lennon was not a great Celtic manager. So far RD has not set the heather a light, but he like Lennon must be given time.

20.) 21 Sep 2014
Any Celtic manager under the current structure has his hands tied due to the quality of player being brought in/ through. If, and it's one big if, RD is the next Rijkaard, Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp etc, then his philosophy needs to be taught to the kids, and the youth scouting/training needs restructuring. I accept we can't compete financially, but neither can some clubs doing much better than ourselves. But they also spend the right money on quality in the necessary areas.

21.) 21 Sep 2014
Mrs E I agree, salzburg away was always the hardest tie and to come away with a point is a good result.

Too many people on this that are quick to put knife into Delia. It might come as a surprise to many of you, but we are in the process of rebuilding squad and weeding out dead wood. Everything is not going to fall into place straight away, takes time.

Deliberately not commenting on Lennon. Its good sitting back watching people contradict prior statements

22.) 21 Sep 2014
21 Sep 2014 15:54:52
KevT the debate is actually is RD a manager at all. Half time at celtic park. Wait and see RD will make changes at half time so that in itself tells you his original selection was wrong. No point in arguing about this any more with Celtic supporters who just want to throw support behind the manager because we are celtic. Grow up, RD is out if his depth, he had to go unless you want celtic to continue to go backwards.