08 Apr 2014 13:41:05 1.) 08 Apr 2014 2.) 08 Apr 2014 3.) 09 Apr 2014 4.) 09 Apr 2014 5.) 09 Apr 2014 6.) 09 Apr 2014 7.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Bairds has been closed down.} 8.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Well CFC and NL don't seem to agree with you Del, why else would they have disciplined the player and the club and player apologise to Hearts? 9.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Would you feel the same if it was a Sevco player singing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood or was it acceptable to you for Bob Malcolm to finish his autograph with FTP under it and Donald Findlay doing his karaoke turn. As far as I know none of them are members of the KKK or BNP either, it's all about the craic though.} 10.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - As I have said previously I thought the charge about singing Hearts were going bust was a nonsense but singing a song, that is known to be regarded as racist is another matter altogether. 11.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Footballers, especially at a club the size of CFC, are under scrutiny 24/7. Griffiths should have known better because a)he has previous for racism and b)it's already well known that the song is seen as racist by the SFA and the law. Ignorance and stupidness is not an acceptable excuse for racism. 12.) 09 Apr 2014 13.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - It has nothing to do with what songs Mrs E or anyone else sang, it is about the song Griffiths sang. My wife's grandfather had some very questionable views towards foreigners, after fighting in WW2 and living through the 60s, 70s and 80s his views were seen as acceptable back then, just like Alf Garnett's and Enoch Powell's were, it doesn't mean they were right. 14.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Rebel songs are not racist. I think you could do with some education to bring your views and morals into the 21st century, you're stuck in the dark ages and sound more like an Ibrox footsoldier. 15.) 09 Apr 2014 16.) 09 Apr 2014 17.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Spot on Edward, my sentiments exactly. Look at the problems he has caused and he hasn't even been here 3 months.} 18.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Well if the cap fits.} 19.) 09 Apr 2014 20.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - It wasn't Scott Brown though was it so that is another immaterial point you've made. 21.) 09 Apr 2014 22.) 09 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - You're wasting your time Tam. Irish songs are wrong but racism is seen as nothing more than a bit of banter. 23.) 09 Apr 2014 24.) 09 Apr 2014 25.) 10 Apr 2014 26.) 10 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Stupidity is no excuse. You are making excuses for someone singing a (known) racist song, so don't come out with abusing privileges p!sh, I can only go by what you are saying here. I've met well read people who think Hitler was just misunderstood, because they think it doesn't make them right (although you will probably just say it was a bit of a laugh that got out of hand, he should have just said sorry). 27.) 10 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - This is the second time Griffiths has been in trouble with the police regarding racism, he doesn't seem to be learning by his mistakes does he? And no empty apology is going to change the way he is viewed.} 28.) 10 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - I'm not a fan mate and have made my feelings abundantly clear about him. I backed him against the initial NoC (the song about Hearts going bust) as I seen that as a bit of youngsters having a giggle but the racist singing just highlighted once again what type of a man he is, stupidity is no excuse in my eyes. Stupid people know right and wrong, remember Riordan was fined over the same song and the Dunfermline fan fined, both incidents were well documented, so he can't say he didn't know, he's a Hibs fan so must have at least known about the Riordan incident. 29.) 10 Apr 2014 30.) 10 Apr 2014 31.) 10 Apr 2014 32.) 10 Apr 2014 33.) 10 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - I think I need a shower after reading that. I've got my own family thanks, I neither want or need to be part of anything made up by some desperate and needy morons on Tw@tter.} 34.) 10 Apr 2014 35.) 10 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - I had you down as a fully paid up member of the #CelticFamily. Didn't I see you wearing a Barca top with #LennonBarcaNorwichIonlyEatArgentinianCornedBeefandIveBeenToDublinForaWeekendSoImIrishFamily on the back of it the other week?} 36.) 10 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - During the Falklands Conflict Britain banned the importation of Argentinian beef, especially corned beef. It was removed from supermarkets etc but there were companies who bought as much as possible to do their bit for the Argentinian economy and to protest against the British invasion. Personally I've never came across any actual proof of it and it seems to be a story concocted by the same type of lowlife's that say Celtic left their floodlights on to guide German bombers during WW2, totally oblivious to the fact that CP didn't get floodlights until 1959, a full 14 years after the war finished! 37.) 10 Apr 2014 {Ed007's Note - Go to any country in Europe and you will meet people who hate the English. In fact go further afield, India, the USA, Australia and Canada all hold the English in utter contempt. There aren't many places who haven't suffered at their hands one way or another.} 38.) 11 Apr 2014
There is a new poll up:
What action do you think the club should take against Leigh Griffiths?Vote here
In my opinion, if the club sack Griffiths they will be hounded by the MSM but if they just fine him we'll be accused of not doing enough. Lennon jumping in both feet first last Friday and saying any form of discrimination would result in a player losing their job may backfire and make him look like a tool yet again. The route I'd go down is trying to educate Griffiths. Hit him wi a heavy fine, say 4 weeks. Also tell him he has to work closely with some form of local refugees group or Antiracism campaign. If he refuses, then sack him!
Ed007 me and you have squabbled in the past over griffiths! I was for giving him a chance . On field I have no complaints! Off field I am now seeing a side you were obviously more educated than me on . I however feel he has been punished already for the offence . IMO what he done is no worse than what you would hear every Saturday down the gallowgate! Friendly banter! Don't remember this much being made of Findlay singing on camera or the joke about the smokey room and another pope dying? If he was a normal supporter we would never have even heard about it! Just the media trying to make Celtic look bad while that mob slither from one bad news to the next!
@Delbhoy1888 Friendly banter? I can assure you if I heard anyone down the Gallowgate singing about someone being a refugee I'd have a polite word in their ear, if they continued then things wouldn't be so polite, I'd skelp them for it. There's no need for racist, bigoted or derogatory comments like this in modern society and I defo wouldn't class it as friendly banter!
The days of sacking players is over too much money involved like it or not, Griffiths is daft, but other players have done much worse than that and survived . Just because they earn a lot of money does not give them brains, and most of the people who are offended think nothing of singing offensive songs themselves, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone and all that .I agree he should not have been signed in the first place, an accident waiting to happen, hopefully this might be the wake up call eh . how many clichés in there?. not the one who plays for Man City
@hamiltonbhoy I'm not saying I condone it! Mearly we have all done it! Have you never belted out a few verses of go on home British soldiers or told a Scottish English and Irishman joke? In the video he is jumping up and down with the fans "yes" can you hear griffiths himself saying anything "no" . You must have got many a slapping walking into bar 67 or bairds bar and telling people to pipe it down. Heaven forbid the man got caught up in the moment, and actually enjoyed himself with his mates!
I think i’m actually a wee bit in shock that some Celtic fans don’t fully understand the implications of what Griffiths is caught up in here.
Do we really know nothing about the Club at all?
For those trying their best to justify this debacle, I don’t want to hear another complaint about Racism in any form including the Famine song or the Board being out of touch with the Club’s roots.
For goodness sake, we’ve also got the Chief Executive of the Scottish Refugee Council commenting on the issue:-
'It shows Scotland still has a long way to go in the battle against prejudice and hatred'
Well said DB1888, totally agree with you at the end of the day this has been blown out of all proportion. Me and my pals when we watch a Celtic game on the telly we still sing the old songs, the same as the ones we all sang many moons ago. It is all banter with no ill feeling meant at all. HB I would love to see you skelping fellow Tims in Bairds Bar for upsetting not like minded folk, you would last about 3 minuites ya tube. Hail Hail
@ed007 bairds was used as an example lol hoops bar emerald 67 or what ever they are called same songs! Mrs e! Let he without sin cast the first stone! Have you never sang from the old hymn book? A take it you have always phoned an oriental take away? Never a c****y? Or went to the p***s for some messages or a paper? Th p.c in this country is out of order! Griffiths is guilty of 2 things! 1 enjoying himself away from the lime light of Glasgow 2 being stupid enough to get caught on camera!
How can the club defend Griffiths against the SFA charges when they have already admitted his guilt by punishing the player?
You better be careful here, remember we aren't allowed to say anything against the club or the manager.
And if you called the Chinese or corner shop owner those names to their face you could be charged by the police, just remember it used to be acceptable to use the N word in everyday life, do you also think it's acceptable to be called names like a 'taig'?
What people need to realise is we need to follow the law on these matters, it's nothing to do with a witch-hunt against CFC players. The precedent has already been set, a Dunfermline fan was fined £200 in 2012 for singing the Rudi Skacel song, he was found guilty of a racially aggravated breach of the peace. Derek Riordan was also forced to apologise for singing the same song.
If found guilty by a court of law Griffiths could find himself getting a Football Banning Order, it won't happen but technically he could be banned from entering any football stadium in Scotland.
It's unbelievable the amount of people who have given the GB abuse over songs and banners, backed the board over disbanding Section 111 yet suddenly they don't see a problem with a player singing a song that goes against everything the club stands for and has been condemned by everyone from judges to our own manager, if anyone knows the effect of racism it's NL or were the bombs and bullets sent to him and others all part of 'the Glasgow banter'?
No CFC supporter should ever think racism of any kind, on any level, is acceptable. As I have said before, people think racism only counts when it's against blacks and Asians, racism is racism regardless of the colour of the person's skin.
For once I am 100% behind the club here and I'm confident they will deal with the situation in the correct manner.}
Would people here kindly put things into perspective please, look at the facts:-
1) he was out with a few mates
2) He had drink taken
3) He was singing in a pub
4) He joined in for the craic
5) He sang a few tunes he shouldn't have.
6) His mouth obviously functions far quicker than his brain
So he let himself down but as far as I know he's not a member of the KKK or BNP.
He needs to grow up and grow up quickly but I think if he was psychoanalysed by a competent professional they would conclude that he is no more a bigger racist that the average Joe Soap. And whether we like to admit it or not we all have our wee prejudices.
Honestly Ed I don't care what a Sevco player does, they can sing what they like, it's a reflection on themselves not me or you. As much as I respect your opinion Ed you shouldn't even be contributing to this debate. You despise the lad fullstop and you are entitled to that opinion as much as I am entitled to mine. You are only waiting for him to slip up and ram down our throats the fact that he should never have been signed for Celtic, I get the feeling you'll say "I told ye so" a lot of the time while he's at Celtic.
He was signed for Celtic when the board and the manager knew full well his flaws and his past. They say a leopard does not change his spots so I would say this, It's Griffiths fault he's a person of poor character but it's not his fault he signed for Celtic
And FYI I will comment on what ever I want to, you or nobody else can tell me otherwise.
If I will have plenty of opportunities to say 'I told you so', you saying you think I will be proven to be right that the club should never have signed him because of the trouble he will bring? So what's the difference between me saying it or you?}
@ed007! I think you have read too much into my posts! If you think I am standing up for what he did then my apologies for not making it clearer! I am with you that he was bang out of order being caught singing ang jumping up and down whilst representing our famous club! He has been fined for it! For me that is it! Yes the sfa will punish him also(rightly so) . I was mearly stating that there is not one amongst us that has not used or sang racist words or songs! I tried to post exact same on the zombie page to some un educated fool that said " if that was us the sfa would hammer us" or words to those effect : I stated about Findlay, up to the knees in Fenian blood and the fact that their bile is heard on bbcsport every time they are on! ( wasn't printed though) all I keep saying is WE HAVE ALL DONE IT in some way shape or form! I am not saying its rite Ffs Gordon brown got caught off camera making mistakes! Andy Gary on sly it happens .
You go into a pub or down the Wim Jansen on a Saturday night and guys are in the cubicles snorting coke, does that mean it would be ok for a CFC player to do it, everybody else is so why shouldn't they?}
I didn't want to burst TTT's wee fantasy bubble Ed. I don't think Bairds had been open longer than 6 months at a time in the last 5-10 years before closing completely at the start of the year. I agree with what you're saying Mrs E. I got ridiculed on Sunday for saying Griffiths should be heavily fined, told to work with a refugee group/antira campaign and if he refuses he should be fired. Reasons for this being he plays for a club constituted for refugees, if he doesn't agree with it then he should hold his silence.
HamiltonBhoy
09 Apr 2014 16:58:31
Mrs E it's a huge overreaction from the media because it's Griffiths. The song has been sung by hibs fans for years. Not saying it's right but I don't actually believe they sing it with any malice. I take it you've never sang any rebel songs?
There used to be a TV sitcom called Love Thy Neighbour where using outright racist and derogatory terms for black people was the main joke, there's a reason it has never been repeated, it would be seen as totally unacceptable in a modern society.
Do you actually know the club's written social charter or social mission? Their stance on this is very clear:
Corporate: Social Mission
Celtic Football Club is for people who want to support a football club that strives for excellence in Scotland and in Europe, is proud of its history, supportive of its local community and seeks to support the following aims: "To maximise all opportunities to disassociate the Club from sectarianism and bigotry of any kind. To promote Celtic as a Club for all people, regardless of gender, age, religion, race or ability."
OR
Corporate: Social Charter
Celtic will act against racism and sectarianism in any form. Celtic will not tolerate actions and language that seek to promote racism and sectarianism. Celtic aims to support the guidelines issued by the Commission for Racial Equality.
Ed the difference is I was prepared to give the lad a chance, you weren't! I'm still prepared to give him a chance, hopefully this will be the lesson he needs to learn. Have you or your friends ever sang rebel songs at Celtic Park? If so are you all racists? The place is gone so bloody politically correct it's gone beyond a joke! You can't call yer man in noddy a golly wog anymore, we have chalk boards instead of black boards etc. I am prepared to give LG the benefit of the doubt and accept that there was on racist INTENT when he sang about RS. You obviously have got the stubborn streak from your dad, you can take the boy out of Cork but you can't take the Cork from the boy
So now that you have given Griffiths a chance. he has one court appearance and 3 NoC from the SFA, he's been here just over 2 month, how many more chances will you give him?
You obviously think that he is going to be more trouble than he is worth so why even attempt to make excuses for him...AGAIN!
I take it you have contacted the club to inform them you disagree with their policy regarding racism, that you feel it's only banter if you want to give van Dijk a bit of stick because of his colour. Remember Kayal is an Arabic Muslim, he's fair game for a bit of abuse considering the situation in the Middle East and then there is Nir Biton!!! An Israeli Jew who has served his national service in the IDF, there's a few jokes and songs you could sing about him, it's only a laugh after all.
I'm sure the club will tell you that it's ok and they will give you another chance.
You're another one that thinks because there is no mention of colour it can't be racist, the rest of normal society is glad you're wrong.}
As far as I know, Celtic was founded at least in part to help a refugee population. Throughout our History we have supported noble causes to do with human rights and have made that a core value of the club. I don't care how good he is, what he did was serious. Final warning and months wages is bare minimum sanction.
Well davie you are the first person that I know of that has ever referred to our origins using the word refugees.
We should never have signed him in the first place then we wouldn't be having the debate about a non-footballing subject. shocking
Ed to reply to your last post and correct some innacuracies.
Where have I said that if there is no mention of colour that it isn't racist.
Saying rebel songs are not racist is splitting hairs and I feel you are being hypocritical in saying so.
I gave LG a chance, he gets no more chances from me now. I did not make excuses for him I merely pointed out the probable circumstances leading to the event in question.
I did not contact CFC, I wouldn't waste my breath, a lot of notice they'd take of me anyway. Why would I give one of our players stick because of his colour or religion? Why even suggest that?
I merely disagreed with your assessment of LG and this episode but now you have me as someone lacking education, with low morals, a century behind and a racist apologist.
It's true though Jim
www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/america.htm
Also:-
The Irish who arrived in Scotland were among the poorest, as those who could scrape together more money headed to Canada and America. During 1848 the average weekly inflow of Irish into Glasgow was estimated at more than 1000, and the figure for January to April of that year was put at 42, 860.
Some of the best-known Famine memorials are in the US, including the Irish Hunger Memorial in Manhattan, New York, and a national monument at Penns Landing, Philadelphia.
Danny Boyle, project manager at the Irish Heritage Foundation, said: 'There was somewhere in the region of 30,000 Irish immigrants resident in Scotland before the onset of the An Gorta Mor in 1845-50. By 1878 there were 332,000. Irish immigration had a humongous impact on the personality and nature of the city.
The multi-generational Irish community are part of the fabric of the city and the country as are all immigrants and refugees who have fled poverty, war, exploitation and famine in more recent times'
"If the cap fits", believe you me Ed, you don't want to go there.
Your contribution to this topic and to anything regarding LG has been nothing but vexatious bile. If it was Scott Brown who got caught singing the same song would you be so forthright in your condemnation.
Remember you are the person who referred to Kris Commons a few seasons ago as "an utter disgrace". Where would be be without him now. So stop acting the langer and try be a bit more unbiased.
I stick by what I said about Commons, the club had serious grounds to sack him and I can assure you he would have struggled to be signed by any other club. So what's your point?
I know you will stick up for anyone going by the morals you have shown in this thread. It's no wonder the club's reputation is in the gutter with players like Griffiths playing for us and people like you supporting racism.}
Refugee
1680s, from French refugié, noun use of past participle of refugier "to take shelter, protect, " from Old French refuge (see refuge). First applied to French Huguenots who migrated after the revocation (1685) of the Edict of Nantes. The word meant "one seeking asylum, " till 1914, when it evolved to mean "one fleeing home" (first applied in this sense to civilians in Flanders heading west to escape fighting in World War I). In Australian slang from World War II, reffo.
Badbhoy, I was not going to take part in this debate but feel I have to ask, why you think the ed is being hypocritical when he state's that rebel song's are not racist? Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett were only two of the protestant persuasion who fought for the freedom of Ireland, no doubt there are many more, so to bring Irish rebel song's into the debate really confuses me, the colour's on the Irish flag should be enough to convince you that these song's are about Irish history, green white and ORANGE, say's it all really
Tambhoy
I'm so glad my father taught me better than some people's obviously did.}
09 Apr 2014 23:23:41
My apologies I didn't realise Mrs E was quoting. I never read her post properly.
I am fully aware of the club's view on racism etc and I would hope Griffiths is on his last chance here. I am also willing to give him my support during this time. Again I don't believe he meant any malice in anything he sang - I just think he's not too bright.
I said it when we signed him, the boys bad news. I just don't get why we signed someone with previous for racism to start with. At the time I predicted he would be on the front page of the papers before the end of the season, as it panned out it didn't even take him 2 months, and then again less than a week later. Don't care how just get rid cause this feckin idiots going to drag the good name of our club through the mud over and over again.
Henrik, Griffiths gave the media their story.
If I got a conviction for racially aggravated breach of the peace, I'd be in bother with my work. I really don't know where this argument 'it was in his own time' comes from. He also must be aware of the SFA's disciplinary procedures, he's been the subject of 3 complaints! It must be part of his player registration?
Tambhoy, indeed those you mention were protestant and there is indeed Orange in the tri colour but a lot of rebel songs are about hatred for and the murdering of the English (Brit) Race, do I need to elaborate more?
I do not support Racism Ed 007 I merely feel that LG's offence has more to do with him being stupid than an intentional racist. For you to say I support racism is an abuse of your privilege as an editor
It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.}
LG is a dafty, but will become a top drawer player.
I think that this should be his first and only chance, well in my book it should.
He needs to keep his head down and get on with his football.
I don't think he realised the implications of what he was singing, nor did he appreciate the microscopic scrutiny he is now under.
I think the club and the SFA (or whatever they are called now) should hammer him. I also agree with the poster that said about spending time with refugees etc. I would also like him to make a very explicit public apology.
We are a different club to many others because of our social stance. We have all made mistakes though.
Discipline LG, if he is repentant forgive but don't forget. Hopefully Celtic will teach him and he will become a better man for it all.
I would be looking for a sincere apology which would have more credibility if he actually had to do some type of community service.
Forgot about that other racist incident, I absolutely abhor racism and always have.
This is his first chance at Celtic, I get the impression that you ain't a fan Ed and can totally understand why.
Just voicing my opinion, he is still a young boy, I will not be in his corner if there is a repeat. I don't condone what he has done, I think, as I mentioned in my last post, he is daft and ill-educated.
As part of our social responsibility should we not try to educate and rehabilitate those that exhibit intolerance? It's always going to divide opinion but I hope he can learn from this and put this behind him.
I knew all along the video of the Skacel song existed (just like I knew his last court appearance was due and never said) after the initial exposure I thought he had escaped facing any consequences, plus if I mentioned there was more and it had never came out I would have been accused of making it up because of my feelings about Griffiths.
He hasn't learnt from any his past misdemeanours and I doubt he ever will.
What do you think someone like Tommy Burns, Paul McStay or Billy McNeill would think about the situation? They knew that along with the privilege of playing for CFC, or managing them, comes massive responsibility and certain standards have to be adhered to.
Sadly those standards have been allowed to be lowered and forgotten by those running the club and sections of those who supposedly support it.
Maybe it's an age thing.....
One of the factors with Dalgish getting sacked from LFC was the way he handled the Suarez racist incident, Abramovich wanted to sack John Terry over the Anton Ferdinand racist incident and was talked out of it by Michael Emenalo and Eddie Newton. That's how serious racism is seen across the world yet in Scotland people would rather try to justify it, as long as the perpetrator plays for their team of course. Would the same people back a Sevco player for doing the same? NO CHANCE!!!!
Excuse my spelling Jhimmy, I'm flying blind on my tablet with no spell-check!}
To some of the above I fully understand the definition of refugee but my point was I had never heard celtics roots being described as refugees I have always heard it described as irish immigrants but I suppose it's ok to change our history to fit rudi skacel.
Sorry forgot to add I know rudi skacel isn't a refugee anyway
The bottom line is whether the song was sung from a racist or derogatory point of view, it's still morally wrong and should result in severe disciplinary action. I got took to a disciplinary with my ex-employer because of my Republican + Antifascist views (even though it was on and I didn't have the name of my employer or anything else to do with the company on my page) so if it's punishable, and backed by Unison may I add, to support a United Ireland + oppose fascism then it should be punishable to sing a derogatory/racist song.
I think we all agree he should be punished but some of us feel sacking him is a step too far but this whole saga should be his last chance at celtic.
I find it hard to understand how so many on here who would claim to be Celtic fans are condemning Griffiths without an iota of evidence . The video certainly is far from clear . Hibs fans within the pub said he didn't . We should all be part of the Celtic family and we should support and help each other. Any family member that turns there back on their own who is in difficulty can hardly claim to be a good family person .
I thnk we're all talking if the video is legit Chris.
It's not about turning your back on your own either, I discipline my kids - does that mean I've turned my back on them?
I'm not really into the whole Celtic family thing either lol
Each to their own though :-)
Cringe. Celtic family lol. I don't know how anyone who claims to be a Celtic fan and sings IF YOU KNOW YOUR HISTORY on a weekly basis can back any player who's made racist/derogatory comments towards a Czech expat footballer being a refugee!
Argentinian corned beef - what's that?
I've managed to get to this age and thanks to social media have seen new words lol
Comrades?
I blame the schools.}
Badbhoy, Yes I think you should elaborate more, I know many Scot's who hate the English, I know some Welsh who hate the English, but none of them have had done to them what the English done to the Irish and I would say not just the English but the Scot's too. As I wrote before the song's are all about IRISH history and what happened to the Irish people, if we Scot's had been abused the way the Irish have we would be singing song's about it too, for you to bring this into the argument about LG is ludicrous
Tambhoy
Corned beef lol
Some will believe anything when it suits. Education definitely seems the way forward!