Celtic Rumours Archive October 03 2013

 

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03 Oct 2013 14:49:26
Ed having seen some topics today about barca interested in Forster, which I think last year a member of thier staff stayed behind to talk about him, question is do you think the interest is real and you think thier is a chance seeing how thier goals are out of contract and want to move on?
At least we may get good money from them with quotes(I know from papers no always real) of 10mill instead of an epl club low balling us and would be good to get barca to buy him from us and show we have real talent and rub it in the face of newcastle lol. Think 10mill is a steal for him even though keepers don't go for that much, would hate to lose him but think this might be the last season with us cause I think he wants to move on maybe. {Ed007's Note - I seriously doubt there is any truth in this, it looks like someone has put two and two together and came up with a million. I expect Barca and Real Madrid to fight it out over De Gea from Man Utd next summer.}

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The one thing Barca will demand from a keeper is that he is good with the ball at his feet and can play passes, this is quite obviously the weakest part of Frazer' s game. No chance it'll happen, the German Ter Stegen looks a good bet.
CBP

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So your saying that the barca keeper need to pass the ball right?. Well they only pass the ball maybe 10 feet for they always play from the back! U say he can't do that?Forster has the best throw and should use that more then his kicks, althought his kicking has gotten a lot better just not in the barca game, now adays he sets up the break out well.

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Dani Alves in this morning rags saying he believes FF is the man to replace Valdes in the summer.

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03 Oct 2013 14:53:48
I know it was a couple of days ago now, but looking back, can someone explain replacing Lustig with Forrest when we are down to 10 men and still 0-0?
Lustig was having an excellent game and just because he was on a yellow doesn't mean he should be subbed.
I know i'm no football manager, but at the time I really didn't get it at all. We had to move players into different postition to accomodate Forrest when it was quite obvious we were going to be on the back foot.
Lennon must be about the only manager in the CL who would bring on a winger at 0-0 when a player is sent off. I don't know if its called being brave or pretty stupid. i'm for the latter. but what do I know.

Joeshmo1888

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Lustig was on a yellow and was marking naymar who was diving about. The change was made so lustig didn't pick up another yellow and subsequent red. Being down to 10 men was a big enough task we would have really struggled with 9. I think it was a smart decision personally even though lustig was playing well.

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Lennon does everything correct as manager except substitutions which he is woeful at.
one recommendation would make Celtic an outstanding team. Take decisions on subs off Lenny.
There u go, we would have at least six CL points extra in my opinion over last season and this season.

His understanding of risk and due carefulness is always outweighed by his disposition to "be brave" coupled with his game head of passion causing poor tactical judgement and his substitutions lose us games. He needs to take all this as constructive criticism to improve. Not entrench himself and yes, run out a stupid double substitution in the next game, which would prove he doesn't learn from mistakes.

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He was on a yellow card against a player who has a habit of rolling all over the place if breathed on to strongly. With brown already off I just think he tried to protect Lustig from another card.

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So. we take off an International defender who is having a cracking game v Naymar to replace him with a winger. The yellow card is irrelevant IMO, Our back line were doing a great job, suddenly Matthews finds himself back their marking someone he hasn't marked all night. To accomodate Forrest. Surely the easiest thing to do was to take off a forward and put Biton on to sit infront of the defence.
Like I said earlier though, i'm not a manager.maybe i'm talking crap.

Joeshmo1888

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Lennon's substitutions are wrong. I've been saying it since last year CL and thanks to Ed for allowing my posts up which cannot be popular.
Regardless, we are bottom of group with zero points. Have given away six points when we could be on two points and only given two points. The Manager has to shoulder the responsibility.

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We managed to get to the group stages twice in 2 seasons with Lennon making the substitutions, we also made the last 16 with his substitutions. Can't it be that we just got beat off a superior team when we wer down to 10 men.

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I agree with Lenny's decision. Lustig had already been booked and Neymar was doing the bambi on ice routine. Why not move Matthews back who is every bit as good as Lustig and get some fresh legs on in Forrest?

When you are down to 10 men against a team as good as Barca you need players capable of holding on to the ball and Forrest is one of the few players in our team capable of doing it against good opposition. Didn't work out on the night but to say that decision cost us the game is wrong in my opinion.

Mac

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@joeschmo, lustig was replaced with another international right back in adam mathews forest went on to play were mathews started on the right wing, all 3 players mentioned are internationals, ., .kbarry

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There was no way in hell 10 man celtic were going to continue to keep out barcelona, lustig was on a yellow and would have no doubt been sent off with all the pressure that would of been put on us and I personally prefer 10 men to 9 also I would for one was calling from half time to switch lustig for forrest as personally I want to celtic try to win not sit back and let teams piss all over us and be seen as a joke

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I think Lustig's yellow card was a factor and Mathews was an able right back to step in. However it is double changes that are causing more damage as it means we have to re-jig half the team and often lose momentum and organisation.
We were far too afraid of Barca from the KO and the players were panicky and losing possession with ridiculous schoolboy errors, inviting more and more pressure.
The attitude of the players is the responsibility of the manager and they should have been more positive and less nervous as Barcelona are not the same team without Messi and were below par.

JJ

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What if Forrest had scored with his effort, would you be saying it was genius substitution? Probably not, would find something else to slag Lennon off. Just remember we were playing Barcelona. Johnsey

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As I said, maybe i'm wrong. But I felt Lustig was playing well. We needed all hands to the pump when down to 10. So why bring on a guy that can't tackle but take one off whos timing for a tackle was virtually perfect all night. Its all about opinions and that's mine.
But as above poster said, if Jamesy had scored I wouldn't have batted an eyelid to the changes.

joeshmo1888

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The substitution should have been stokes for James Forrest. Nothing more. Don't mess with defense.

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At the end of the day Lenny picks the team. The man is a born winner end of. And joescmoo, there was a international rb to replace him and a intenational winger coming on, all three are international players isn't that correct? Honestly its running down your chin bud, I do try listning to peoples views, but your are sometimes utter turkish, ., .kbarry

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I promised I wouldn't respond to your replies kbarry, but the insults get a bit annoying. Anyone who has a different opinion from yourself gets it, and were all talking rubbish.
Lennon is a born winner . except v Barca, Milan, Morton etc.
Wind your neck in, he is a good manager, but has a few flaws, one being subs, which he gets wrong time and time again. IMO.

Joeshmo1888

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If Victor Valdes didn't pull off the great save from Forrest's half volley you would have been saying what an inspired substitution it was.

In the Shaktar Karagandy home qualifier 99% of the stadium would have took Forrest off yet he is the one that scored the winner to get us to the group stages so hindsight is a wondeful thing!

Green Soldier

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The substitution was always Forrest for stokes and leave the Lustig, defense and shape alone.
And since when is lustig's availability for next game more important than the game he is in? Both value at three points. But the game he was in was 0-0 each at home to Barca and 10 men. Nobody should get a result at Celtic park it was once a fortress.
And Neymar never got anyone sent off, brown kicked him the back after the whistle. Brown said sorry which is an admitionnofvguilt. Neymar had been warned by ref and was not fooling anyone. No need to sub Lustig.

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@joschmoo I didn't say "all talk rubbish" just you pal. scraping barrel with the rubbish at making subs thing, ., .kbarry

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@joeschmo you still haven't admited about the international thing 3 internationals not just lustig, dunderheid, ., .kbarry

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Messi is an Internationalist as is Alan Hutton, does that mean it would be a like for like replacement if they were in the same team?

joeshmo1888

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Messi in the same breathe as hutton shows everyone that you don't have a clue, mathews, lustig and forrest are all on par with each other. You are clutching at straws scmo. Get a life messi and hutton, ha ha, thing is that wasnt what you said, what a foolish little man, ., .kbarry

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Forrest doesn't play in the same position as the other 2. That was my original point. Backed up by a lot of the other posters on this thread. I used Messi and Hutton as an example to say, an Internationalist, does not mean that its a proper substitution to make.
We replaced a defender with a winger when at 0-0 and down to 10 men.
Im over it, please get over it too.

Joeshmo1888

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Thing is mathews was playing right wing and I do know he's a right/wing back as does lennon, although can play rw. Thing is posotion was swapped for position, by internationals. As for you being over it? And then you dig yourslf deeper by bringing Messi&Hutton into it your words:We take off an international defender to replace him with a winger" right there that's were you go wrong, as he was replaced by another international defender(mathews)forrest(also international)went and played his natural psition on the wing. Now please get over it and you never keep your promise, ., .kbarry

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Bytheway joeschmoo your right, let's be buddies(an I don't mean love st though), ., .kbarry

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03 Oct 2013 12:56:01
Neil Lennon needs to be more calm cool and collected during CL games. He's too emotional and passionate and it effects his brain processes and rationale. He needs to be cold and clinical. His substitutions are wrong. Obviously chosen in a heated passionate state. Not thinking clearly. It's mjalby's job to keep him real.

Brown's red card was proven not to be a game changer, even after 13 minutes Barca were getting nothing. The Lustig substitution was the game changer. Cue the goal fest only Forster saved us from.

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So lustig being subbed is to blame for izzy not defending yet again? Ffs we got bet why is Lennon to blame most teams can't stop barca from ripping them a new Arse hole in the final 3rd but we've done it 3 times now through good organisation and sitting deep. He probably also subbed lustig because he was on a yellow and didn't want to be down to 9 men

SOS BHOY

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It's true we were in control and on top of the Milan game then the double substitution ruined everything and the goals started against us.

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Our team has proven twice now it can't handle double substitutions. Compound this by changing the position of guys already on the park and your cutting your own throat.
This is the highest level club football, it's unforgiving.
Ruining your own high performing defense, which stood up well for 70 minutes is unforgivable. They were testing and prodding for 70 minutes and got nowhere then Lenny flung the door open.

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Last year at Barcelona we were holding out for an historical draw. Very much on the back foot. The officials gave 5 mins extra time. Lenny brings on forward James Forrest (to defend) Barca player gets in behind Forrest with 25 seconds to go and scores. We would have been top of the group if that had not happened.

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Op what a joke your are! Lustig on a yellow so has to be taking off and the subs made an impact for we almost scored! Leave Lennon to do his thing for he has shown he knows what he is doing for he was tryin to get something out of the game instead of sitting back and just think game is over

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By God you lot are critical.AC Milan - The subs didn't cost us points in either game. A wicked deflection cost celtic could have happened in any game to any player, the second goal you could blame the person that gave away a stupid freekick? Good save but should have been pushed over or behind.
Add that to having 2 or three half decent chances and not scoring is what cost us here.
Against Barca - as silly as it sounds we were caught by a slick, lightening fast counter attack. with Cesc Fab showing good movement and a good finish. it was a great run by the player who crossed for him. And a good pass from Neymar to release him.

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Fair criticism when it's due. We pay our money. We are bottom of the group on zero points. Gave away six points to competitors. It could have been two 0-0 draws easily.

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I don't understand how changing our right back is to blame for a goal which came down our left. It was good play by Barca for the goal, that's what undone us. There doesn't always need to be blame. I also don't get this fascination with double substitutions. I thought the changes really brought us into the game as we hadn't really offered anything going forward until then. Lennon has made double substitutions on many occassions and because we've lost 2 games where he has done this its suddenly the subs and Lenny's fault

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Jeffers there's no blame on the subs as individuals. With 11 men we were holding Barca to a 0-0 draw and getting the odd chance. At 10 men the team automatically went fully defensive for 13 minutes and Barca getting nowhere.
What manager decides to break that success and go on the attack in CL with ten against Barca?
Finally, yes move was from our left side but ball kicked to head of goal scorer in area Lustig had been looking after.

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Management decision making. For choosing pre game the 11 to play. Careful, logical, calmly, well thought through, no room for error.

Same should apply to every substitution. No hot headed stuff. A process in the dugout needs put in place.

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@no name OP get real buddy, its not that when we are winning, we really have no devine right to beat barca most of their team cost more than the lot of ours, now grow up and name yourself, ., .kbarry

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The players started very nervy and were so fear-full of Barcelona and this has happened in many important games.
The manager is highly strung and this transfers to the players and as there is a lack of real experience and leadership in the team, which does not help.
A mix of experience and youth is important in the making and progress of all teams and that includes the bench where Lennon, Mjallby and Parker sometimes just look like totally lost Bhoys.

JJ

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Kbarry, are you fat sally in disguise? Wanting people to name themselves now, if someone doesn't want to log in or register or leave their name that's their prerogative. Last week you wanted people banned, thanks be to god you're not a moderator! Relax your cacks lad, people have different opinions to you and me, it's up to you to decide who's opinion you value or who's opinion you rubbish but whether they leave a name or not they're still entitled to their opinion. Now have a hot chocolate and off to your leaba for yourself {Ed007's Note - It isn't really up to themselves, we are trying to phase out anonymous posts in the weeks ahead.}

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I stand corrected boss but there are ways around that too, floating IP addresses, different user names for home & work pc phone etc. Something for the geek squad to ponder! {Ed007's Note - It won't make any difference, any post that isn't from a registered (logged in) user will just be deleted.}

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A h8 all that "name yourself poster" that's why a found out how to log in. But half the time a end up logged out and end up posting anonymously.
You can sign off with any name anytime unless its in that horrible colour of blue {Ed007's Note - That's something we will be looking at.}

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Monkeybhoy, you're obviously clearing your history or have not got it set to save passwords etc. That's the sensible thing to do. (I don't want my wife to know what I was looking at either) ahem, anyway best thing to do is to log in each time you visit whether you post or not. In the "post your text box" under the green banner your user name should appear, if it doesn't then you're not logged in. You'll get the hang of it

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@badbhoy you did make me laugh, No iam not the fat man i am honestly one of us. I agree I sometimes get pissed off with the sh1t our own give lenny. He also is one of us, can you remember before lenny our team was a shambles and it goes to show how good a job he's done now that we are moaning when we can't get results against the likes of acmilan and barca. He wears his heart on sleeve and stands up for our team,, a bit(but more)like o'neill he kicks, heads every ball from the touchline. I understand there are some fans wholl never like/take to him, but hey he's here and loves the club like you and me. I have asked(Ed poll please, prob no real answers though)before whod be a better candidate, got 1 answer(morten weighorst?) so BB could you give a name?, ., .kbarry(in lenny I trust) {Ed007's Note - If people send in (realistic) candidates I'll set a poll up no problem. So far we have Wieghorst and Owen Coyle, he doesn't have that clause for nothing.
I'll have a new poll up for tomorrow anyway and I will let people post nominations for an alternative manager over the weekend.}

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People are entitled to their opinions and discussions of course Ed. But for whatever it would be worth, I just want to register my displeasure at the idea of a poll by fans for who they want to see replace NL. Why? Because we've been unfortunately beaten by two much better sides? {Ed007's Note - I only try and sort things you guys ask for Jim. Personally I am 99% behind NL, I don't think our manager should be using Tw@tter, which is the poll I am going to set up tomorrow. You can't deny that a lot of fans think he has taken the team as far as he can though, they are entitled to that opinion whether you agree or not. Maybe that would be a better poll?}

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JJ you must have been at a different game from me mate, I certainly did not see any fearfulness from us, I thought we stuck to the game plan very well even after going down to ten men. Yes big Fraser made some great save's but that's what he's there for mate.
Tambhoy

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And you're right, he shouldn't be using tw@tter. No one with a public responsibility to uphold should. It takes the limits of freedom of expression to a level that even the law doesn't know how to handle.

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There should've been a post between the two Ed. Appreciate what you do for us and accept you meet diverse requests. The other poll is much better worded aye mate. If this team has gone as far as it can (coincidently I don't think it has) then its the restrictions of the board or more largely the restrictions of Scottish football. Not Lennon. In that sense, what difference would Coyle make? Or Mourinho for that matter. Lennon is being criticised here for having passion. It's a joke.

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