Celtic Rumours Archive February 25 2013

25 Feb 2013 17:37:56
ED007 and everyone on here let us have an adult discussion of this sectarian issue warts and all.
First of all I, like many on here, have sung all the Rebel songs in my youth and if truth be told (or as Sally says I won't lie to you) I have used the "H" word too many times.
Now to the Green Brigade and their songs. We all know they still continue to belt out the Rebel songs and still use the "H" word. Today, their songs are out of date and should be binned. The "H" word is offensive to some and we must all make efforts to eradicate it from our vocabularly.
But at Celtic Park or at away games, I have NEVER heard any songs about child abuse or that ilk.
Celtic fans sing Irish songs which are political (maybe politically incorrect) but are NOT sectarian.
To my knowledge the majority of Celtic fans do not sing racist songs either ( I say "majority" because no doubt some will say they have heard racist songs from Celtic fans) I also believe in the past certain black Rangers players were booed etc. but most Celtic fans condemned this also.
We all know the Scottish press are good at "whataboutery" and try and link Celtic fans every time the wee Govan team's fans sing "inappropriate" songs. The press keep trying to say our Irish songs are "sectarian" they do this to deflect away from the "grand" master's club down Ibrox way.
I think we as Celtic fans have a great chance to lead by example and sing our hearts out supporting Celtic but with good clean, witty, chants and songs.
Myself? I no longer sing Rebel songs and have moved on, it is time for the Green Brigade to move on also by supporting this great club of ours passionately yes, but in the right spirit. Timalloy

What's the h word? H*n, is that an offensive word? (not sure how it came about) I think the newco fans are just saying that we did it in the past so it's the same, which they may be right but Celtic have cut that out in the past couple years and I have not heard anything for awhile. So the diff is they still do it loud and proud get away with it but Celtic when some did it it was a punishment all the time, favoritism?dont know. I think we have done a great job and as soon as there is a word of it Celtic comes out with a clear position.

Timalloy - great post.
Agree with you 100% mate. a common sense approach.

To the reply above:
I understand the first bit of your post, to your question.
H*n probably came from the 'derogatory' term used to describe the Germans in WW2, the Royal family being German of origin, obvious link to the Rangers and their support etc.
the rest of your post is a struggle. kbt1978

Tim, I agree with all you say. Unfortunately the only way their repetoire will change is if the other decent and true Rangers supporters ( and there are plenty )want and force the change. Until then they will continue to spout their filth and disgrace the good name of Scottish football. And more worrying, especially after all we've gone through since last February, is that the leaders of Scottish football won't take their heads out of the sand and call the club to task.
Frankiebhoy.

It's in relation to the hanovarian protestant monarchy of germany don't know if it causes offence or not
probably only when followed by b*****d same as the f word probably ok if mentioned by one of your own rightly or wrongly
thommyj

Totally agree about rebel songs, shouldn't sing them as they're provocative and hopefully out of date but like you say, they are not sectarian by definition. I know it gets dismissed as a childish argument but their songs are worse. Child abuse, the famine, and the death of Tommy Burns, how can any decent person sing about any of those things? Simply not funny, completely out of order. Has anyone actually seen the words for the verses of The Famine Song? Its hate beyond anything else I've seen. I know we're far from perfect but there is something really dark at the heart of loyalist prejudice. Hope I don't sound too bitter, I'm really not. Got a bunch of mates who are reasonable Gers fans but the hard core of that support have serious issues. Daviebhoy77

Good post Timalloy, but your wasting your time with this shower.

I posted a similar post on the banter page and got shot down in flames.
Not many of our away games have been attended by the folk on here, that's plainly obvious.

Seems that the head in sand attitude isn't exclusively a Govan trait.

I will say though that Charles Green is stoking the fire and stirring up as much hatred as he can. What this will achieve, I don't know, but once he disappears, it will be us (Scottish society) that are left with the mess to clean up.

25 Feb 2013 20:45:48
Out of all my celtic supporting friends, only two of them sing rebel songs and they are told to shut it as soon as it starts. Even in the house. Being originally from Ayrshire I have a hell of a lot of rangers friends. Every single one of them sing sectarian songs and their hatred of everything and everyone has grown exponentially over the past 12mths. I've had to distance myself from my best pal because she's so unbelievably bitter, she can't/won't see sense. I've never seen rangers fans so bitter

At last Timalloy, a sensible post, except the "grand masters" line. I as a Rangers fan have also sung the songs, but it is clearly time to try and get away from this nonsense from both sides, although there seems little doubt that we have more of these lunatics. I despair at these clowns, they are just scum. They are a disgrace who seem stuck in some bygone time. who cares about some battle three hundred years ago.
My main hope after our troubles that somehow these persons would disappear but alas no. We are still saddled with these bigots. I am of an age when Scottish fans of the national team were looked upon as trouble, the fans took it on themselves to sort it. I was once at Wembley in the late 70's when a drunken fan started to abuse a coloured lady. Suddenly a group of big bearded kilted guys appeared and took the lady to her house, and the rest made sure that this guy would never give the country a bad name again. That involved an element of violence which I cannot condone but the fans need to stand up to these guys.
I have to say Ally's request for a song list beggars belief. It is as if we want clarification if we can sing the Sash without the add ons, it's a kind of its ok as long as we don't get caught attitude. These people know what offend, after all that's why they do it. If they don't know they should be locked up anyway.
I don't know what more clubs can do, it's down to the fans now, the true fans.

What chance have we got of eradicating it when there allowed to march every summer and play said tunes! Try go out wearing a celtic top or even a green top for that matter on a day of these marches and and your taking your life in your hands. Unfortunately it's a poison handed down from father to son and even daughter most of them don't even know what they hate. I see else where that they are blaming the green brigade for the singing at Berwick believe it or not. There even putting it down to freedom of speech. Seems there's an inherent lack of intelagence that will never get sorted in this jerremy Kyle world we live in.

dd {Ed007's Note - It must have been English members of the GB if we are to believe The Rangers/Sevco fan that posted earlier and was at the Berwick match. The people singing the songs had an English accent according to him.}

Totally agree Green has stoked the fire just to raise his stock

I hate all the religious stuff, no place for it at all. I am Rangers daft, my wife is a Catholic, this is 2013 not 1690.

I used to go as a teenager in a car to Parkhead with two Rangers fans and two Celtic fans, and we would go to our respective ends, shout and sing our hearts out (all the songs), get back in the car and we were still friends. Now there is no need for those songs, we could still be fierce rivals (in years to come) but would hope by then that the songs change but the friendship still in tact. I fear that is unlikely.

I am a H*n, I have no idea where this name came from, I don't care. I have been called worse. I don't take offence at the word, although no doubt some people will.
I do take offence at Orange bar steward or Fenian bar steward. No need for it, simple.

Some interesting points on here today and it's great that both sets of fans are joining into what could become a very heated debate or worse but are bringing some well measured items up. I watched as we all did at the news coming out of Celtic park the day Tommy Burns died and also up to and beyond his funeral when many Rangers fans went on camera to support their Celtic friends and of course who carried the coffin and prayed at that time maybe just maybe sectarianism is beginning to shift. But alas, no. I watched with interest at the demise at Oldco Rangers with wonder as to the future of Scottish football and again I prayed, with the time apart, that maybe just maybe sectarianism is beginning to shift. But alas, no. I believe that the issue of sectarianism is very much a society problem and the subtle sectarians are every bit as dangerous as the in you face ones. I unfortunately do not have the answers to the shame of our great country but am heartened that there are Rangers fans willing to engage in conversations like this. On a final point, as I already said I hoped the time apart would do us good but at the moment it seems to be stoking the fire for some and if we can't get something done soon I fear our next meeting could end up an unprecedented embarrassment beamed around the world for all to see or maybe even worse.

Toffeebhoy

I agree with Ally Mc Coist! I think we should have an acceptable songs list and an unacceptable songs list. I'm from the North of Ireland and love belting out the Irish songs some of which are totally acceptable.

Brian M

If your a Celtic fan and can't grasp what is acceptable your a Moron, the club started playing (through the Tannoy) the "type" of Irish songs that are acceptable some time ago i. e "A Nation Once Again" etc. Going home British Soldiers etc are not acceptable, whilst I hold a great deal of empathy and understanding of the importance of such songs Celtic Football Club does not need this, would you like to join the EPL? I would, do you thin such songs help us get there? I don't!


The main difference between Celtic and that lot is, if they stop singing the bile, what are they left with? I csn not think of one song they sign that does not make mention of hating RC's or Celtic FC.


A question do you think TRFC supporters/ Orc's supplimenting the words in the Billy Boys (you know the words I mean) makes the song acceptable? I don't, Is "weee arrree deee peeoploe" is acceptable? I don't.

G Speirs in the Herald makes reference to being unsure why we crank up the Rebels at Tynecastle WTF! has he heard what they sign? Billy Boys (with the words as per above) BUT CELTIC NEED TO RISE ABOVE IT, ALL OF THEM!


We have a great club, great history and when we go abroad, people love us! let's give nobody/no institution/ no bigoted "Scottish press" anything to come at us with.


If they stop singing all there rubbish, they will have to bouncy bouncy till they all collapse! grown men doing the bouncy, hilarious!

They have no heritage if you take away the bigotry and hatred. Their history is all about hating us and our own solid foundation. They hate us primarily because they are scared that a rich culture will someday overcome bigotry and hatred. They behave in exactly the same way towards Celtic fans that the Protestant tradition in Northern Ireland has treated the Catholic tradition for the last 100 years or more. And now their chickens are coming home to roost they don't know how to deal with it. Chuckie has found their weakness. He and his bunch of comedians are cajoling their flock like Hitler did when WW2 was coming to an end when he told his peepul that the "enemy" was bad and deserved to be crushed. And the sad thing is. a lot of them believe him!
Green is stoking the fires of hatred in order to earn himself a payday. He doesn't care what destruction he leaves behind when he goes. He doesn't care about Govan FC and he didn't care about the team that played at Ibrocks before Govan FC was created last year. He doesn't care about anything or anyone except himself and his bank balance. He will walk away with a fat cheque and shrug his shoulders when confronted with the facts of the debacle he has created. He panders to the shallow mentality of the hardline bigots who support Govan FC because he knows he has to deflect their limited intelligence away from the fact that he's trying to fill his swag bag. He says it's a new club but it still retains the history of it's predecessor. That's like saying you have a new woman in your life but you still want to go on holidays with your ex every year because you did it for years before. If they knew the truth they'd have him lynched in Sauchiehall Street because that's the only way they know how to deal with anyone who doesn't agree with them. Green is putting himself on a pedestal and the masses are only too happy to stand and applaud him on his journey up the ladder. He is suddenly a die hard Govan FC fan. He encouraged the fans of Govan FC to boycott the team when they played Dundee Utd in the cup recently. Is that responsible behaviour from the Chairman of a football club?
His promises to the masses are magical. He must look in his bathroom mirror each night and laugh at his own performances. It's as if he is playing a newly invented two-part game where the first part is trying to think of the most outrageous ideas imaginable and the second part is acting it out in front of a crowd of fools.
Overall, his attempts to 'make it' with the bully boys are, to date, stopping just short of doing a 'Mike Ashley' and putting on a Govan FC shirt and standing in the crowd drinking beer.
Wikipedia refers to Green as a "British businessman". Has that great internet source of reference never heard of the words 'thief', 'irresponsible self-appointed messiah' or 'chancer'? Because he is all of those negatives and more. He cares not a jot for football north of the border and if anyone should want a valuation of what he brings to the game then you just have to ask Cheltenham Town how much they paid Goole Town for him when he was trying (and failing) to play the game for real in his earlier days. £500 is the answer, just in case you were wondering and he brings nothing more to the boardroom than he ever did to the pitch.

Hail Hail
ChrisBhoy

Have you saw Charles Green in the orange top don't exist anymore f. c used to wear, when they existed! Disgrace utter disgrace. Can youimagine any of the officals at our club or any of the other scottish clubs (mad vlad excluded) behaving in such a fashion. TRFC or previous RFC don't hold Scottish Football back, they hold, Scottish society back! I have friends that support them, reasonable educated people, they need to wakeup!

The word h+n came into use as an insult in the late sixties. it was commonly used for a while to replace 'c++t'. both sides of the old firm fans' used it for a while. rangers fans sang it at hampden when the new roof was built at the 'rangers end'. they sang 'the h+ns are getting wet'. both sides would sing 'go home ya h+ns' when opposing fans were leaving early due to their team leaving. the only explanations I can think of it taking on its current meaning are
celtic won most of the matches then and sang it more often.
catholics didn't have word in their vocabulary to oppose 'fen++n' and this one did the trick.
whatever it is it began in the sixties and has no historic meaning.

I don't entirely agree about the songs

I mean, obviously there are certain things people shouldn't be shouting.

But some so-called rebel songs are just telling a stofy. History isn't meant to be brushed under the carpet.

And chanting about rival supporters is what football is all about. So long as its done in good humour.

Political correctness has its place but football has always been the game of the working man. And as a working man, I expect going to the football to be an enjoyable experience where I can escape from the drudgeries of my otherwise dull life. Please do not water this down with your "avoid the H word" pish.

Never forget who is paying the wages.

Patrick X

As for the h word it was used by every supporter in the 1960s/70s to describe anyone else they didn't like.

It was obviously a throwback to world war 2 when the german army were the enemy.
It became synonymous with 'the enemy' ever since.

It was never Rangers specific until much later. Somehow that was perpetuated and much because of the perceived image of their fan base as fanatical british nationalists, much like german nationalists of the 1930s must have seemed.

victor

Going to Ibrox whenever I can I have noticed an incredible difference (for the better). The last game I went to I was sat beside the loyal bears and tbh didn't hear a single sectarian song. However I know its not eradicated and it will take some time before we go an entire season without an incident. I think what people are failing to mention is that it isn't directly a football issue, its more of a social problem. It does happen at other grounds, in pubs and in homes all over the country. The only way we can erase it entirely is to have severe punishments for all offences, not just at Ibrox and Parkhead.

As for the songs being sung I thought I have heard them all, about sectarianism, about paedophilia (Big Jock) but apparently not because I have never heard the one about Tommy Burns. A man that rangers fans respect greatly, you just had to see who carried his coffin to see what he meant to Celtic, Rangers and Glasgow as a whole. Zikos.

Zikos, what about Green in the Orange top? an absolute disgrace!

I just had to google it there, because I would have sounded like Arsene Wenger when I replied saying that I hadn't seen it. If he was just in the door I would have said that he probably didn't know the score up here but he has had a year now to get up to speed and he should know better than to get mixed up with this sort of thing. On one hand he is good for Rangers because whether you would admit to it or not we are a target right now and he seems to like to fight the fights. And on the other he plays to the daft fans too much. I lost respect for him when he decided to not take up the allocation at the united game. I think he should have left it up to the fans to decide whether they wanted to go. He says that he listened to the fans but I am a member of the RST and THEY don't speak for everyone.

The big question in regard to Green is how long he will be here for? Until then be prepared for more stupidity I'm afraid!

25 Feb 2013 00:50:58
UEFA and Michel Platini stated last year they would crack down on racism and sectarianism wherever they found it. Well here's their opportunity to walk the talk.

Uefa have always just tapped old rangers on the wrist as have the SFA. Absolutely nothing for Manchester for instance. Why are they going to now find courage to protect people and do the right thing with this new club?

I'm sure Rangers have been in recent year fined for fans vile sectarian chanting. I'm sure Jabba wrote the fans would bring down the club financially if they continued (Jabba seemed to know the teetering financial situation). Well given this is the umpteenth time, and there's £22m in the kitty, and Jabba says £400k is a paltry insignificant sum to the club, the SFA should now levy a much higher exemplary fine. Heaven knows the SFA deserves some of that £22m for all the trouble they've been through with this lot.

I really don't see uefa being interested in a game in the 4th tier of scottish football no matter who it was. uefa have a much bigger issues in some of europe's top leagues which in my opinion will take precedence

There are fewer bigger issues than sectarianism, bigotry and racism. Especially from a group of people unwilling to modernise and reform with a new club after 140 years of bigotry with the old one.

This post riles me it is rangers are the only club who have a minority of fans who sing sectarian song's celtic fan's do it as well and are just as bad. never mind this tit for tat what we should be trying to do is wipe it out of our game completely by more intellegence work done by the police during games to catch these persons and also by self policing I was at the berwick game and it was a small section of fans singing and several fans pointed people out to the police. no excuses for the singing at all but there was several english supporting rangers fans taking advantage of the game being played in berwick and were intent on causing. so less of just blaming it all on rangers. {Ed007's Note - Not that old chestnut.. LMFAO!!! So it was English fans and the police's fault??? Was it those big bad Chelsea supporters again? It was The Rangers/Sevco season ticket holders that were at Berwick. You are in denial and contradict yourself with your own words.
You say we need to wipe it out yet go on to blame those pesky English The Rangers/Sevco season ticket holders and the angelic Scottish The Rangers/Sevco fans pointed out the dastardly Chelsea/The Rangers/Sevco fans and the police failed to do anything, thanks for clearing that up, at least now we all know exactly what happened in Manche... oh I mean Berwick.
Your manager never heard anything untowards yet you could tell the singers' accents, that is quite a talent, sir. Would you mind if I pass on your details to the authorities as a witness to Saturday's shameful display?
Surely you would be more than happy to make a statement to the police to help eradicate once and for all, these nomadic Chelsea/The Rangers/Sevco fans that only seem to materialise when there is any trouble, or questionable behaviour, involving Rangers/The Rangers/Sevco, even though the away allocation at Berwick on Saturday were registered The Rangers/Sevco season ticket holders.
And there is no point in even asking you what songs CFC fans sing that are sectarian? Offensive to some people, yes, but sectarian, sorry you are seriously misguided.}

Unfortunately rangers fans don't seem to understand that the songs celtic sing are political, not sectarian. i'd rather we didn't sing them but to be compared to what we heard saturday is laughable!