Celtic Rumours Archive April 24 2012

 

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24 Apr 2012 22:16:53
Seen this tonight summing up Scottish football when the Champions League semi finals are being played and found it amusing (of course I don't think they mean Celtic):-

Have to say, everyone likes to see world class football but thats not what football is about. Football is about going to see your team even when you know they have little chance of winning, its pishing down and still wanting to go and support your side. None of this glory hunting pi5h. Thats my thoughts anyway.

Mrs E

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HAIL HAIL

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Chelsea game was shockingly boring towards the end, anti-football against barcelona, similar to inter milan a few year back.

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24 Apr 2012 21:30:34
Don't know why Rangers fans are moaning about SFA officials giving them "undeserved" penalties. Been getting them during games for years!

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I bet they will get another PENALTY or two on sunday

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24 Apr 2012 20:14:02
evening ed how are you /
does the transfer5 embargo with "our neighbours mean " no transfers full stop"
or just no BUYING IN?
marty bhoy long time no speak,
hows the leg I wouldnt be surprised if wee pat tried to HELP you out with it? {Ed007's Note - Evening Marty mate, getting there slowly but surely, Thanks. As far as I know the embargo is on incoming transfers only.}

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Evening Ed, my uncle used to be a ref with sfa, and according to him it should only be on incoming transfers.

St MIkey

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Cant be anything else. you cant tell players they cant move on. who'd want to sign for them anyway. the last lot who did found themselves with a 75% wage cut.

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24 Apr 2012 19:41:08
ed,i know another regular poster lets the bhoys/ghirls know about the new strips ,but im being told after a sneek preview on thursday that the 2 new strips(home/away)should be on display in celtic shops on friday.
big paul {Ed007's Note - JB usually keeps us up to date and hasn't mentioned so soon>}

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Not been told anything yet.As soon as i know anything i will post.

Jungle Bhoy.

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The socks on the new home strip are BLACK. That's what all the fuss is about. It's meant to a zinger of a kit too. Hard to picture it with the socks mind u. Exited nonetheless

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24 Apr 2012 18:51:43
Jaroslaw Fojut, who will join Celtic this summer, will miss the remainder of the Polish league season after suffering a knee injury.

Fojut, currently seeing out the remaining weeks of his contract with Slask Wroclaw, was forced out of his team's match against Lechia Gdansk last weekend. He has since undergone tests and been told that he has damaged the collateral ligament in his knee.

According to reports in Poland, after a two week lay-off, Fojut can undergo further tests and begin rehabilitation. He will be unable to play in any of Slask's remaining games.

The defender is expected to be fit within six weeks and should be able to begin pre-season training with Celtic when he joins the club at the end of the season.

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At least he should be fresh for pre-season!

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It's only Collateral damage, he'll be right!

GoldCoastBhoy

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I wouldn't worry too much, I have watched him a few times he seems no better than decent and IMHO would not add much to the team. More of a squad player, but I could be wrong and I certainly hope I am. Sopot Celt

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24 Apr 2012 18:35:54
Ed,how bad is the knee injury Jaroslaw Fojut suffered?Is he going to be out for long?

Jungle Bhoy. {Ed007's Note - See below HB.}

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24 Apr 2012 18:13:01
just seen sally on stv getting his knickers in a twist ,
wanting to know who " the supposedly independent enquiry" were . could he be pulled up for alleging they were not

then the michelin man from the rangers supporters trust , saying that the only way to hit the sfa is the pocket by targeting there sponsors , etc , isnt that what rangers have done to all the creditors already .

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The owners have spent everybody's else's money , not paid tax and owe other clubs money but they think any sanctions are too harsh , seem to have forgot how they rubbed everybody's nose in it when they were winning and spending , now the truth is out how they done it they want pity WHY ????.

Taxman.

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What he means is we did not hand pick the commitee

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24 Apr 2012 16:57:34
Ed - do you know if Celtic have any specific targets in mind for the 2 or 3 experienced players Lenny talked about (appreciate our recent transfer business has very much been done on the q.t.) {Ed007's Note - Nothing concrete yet, sorry. Andy Johnson from Fulhams' representatives are saying there is strong interest from CFC and China . I would expect other team will be interested as weeks go one.

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I wouldn't worry about strengthening your side, Celtic will win the league next year with their youngsters, by the looks of it Rangers won't even be in the league for at least 4 seasons, so there is only one club in Scotland with any decent players, Rangers have only themselves to blame.

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Lenny wants the experienced players for the Champions League.

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24 Apr 2012 17:35:56
John Beatties show on BBC Radio Scotland this morning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01ghftv

Forward and listen from 17mins 15seconds onwards. {Ed007's Note - Johnnie Beattie from Now You See It!!!!!! Is he still about???}

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So its lennons fault scottish football has been shamed beyond repair. no more signings for you boy.

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Lennys fault again, unbelievable! and this is the top man from the RST coming out with this drivel, when are they going to face up and admit to their years of cheating......Stevie

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This man must be the stupidest person ever , non payment of tax , owe small business's to the tune of 134 million but all he wanted to comment on was Neil Lennon and the 2 match ban , thank f@ck I'm not one of these people.

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Hey Ed loved that show ....."letter!".... "letter!" johnnie beatie was in river city a while back but don't know if he still is. {Ed007's Note - I thought he had long left this mortal coil.

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What a d1ck mcmillan is. it was david murray who should have scrutinised whyte. the sfa cant get involved in business negotiations. he was presented with that fact during the interview but went on to have a go at lennon. how disgraceful was that ? does he get paid for doing that job ? what a pr disaster that would be for anybody else, but for them it probably brings in more business. oh the penny just dropped.

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This fellow McMillan has obviously been doon bye in the forests of Ayrshire picking mushrooms. Hes suffering from double vision, double think, and double talk. We might have failed with our double but these guys have doubles in abundance! Unfortunately they are not hallucinating any more and the taxman cometh with a mighty double whammy and the SFA will have to double the punishment when the rest of the story comes out about their wrongdoing. The arrogance continues and even if you wanted to you just cant feel sorry for them! Sopot Celt

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24 Apr 2012 16:14:10
And it keeps getting better doesnt it ....

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17826965

Are these Administrators and Fans for real?? If this is their defence i.e "its no fair so it iznae", then some supposed omnipotent being forbid whats going to happen when it sinks in that , They got off relativley lightly! In fact no, very lightly! especially on the charges that they were censured for. Which to me read as we are issuing you this censure (slap on the wrists) for the worst of the charges cos we do not want to deal with the flak of kicking you out the league completley as yous are guilty as sin on the counts. But a censure will do so we dont have to deal with it.

Jeez o. What a Day!!

Evinguu

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It will be very interesting to see what punishment they receive when they are found guilty of players having two contracts. Stripped of all silverware looks a certainty.

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24 Apr 2012 16:06:52
Not sure if anyone ever seen this as it has never been reported, here is a link to Channel 4 News chief correspondent, Alex Thomson, revealed he has been physically threatened by a Scottish journalist in a hostile media atmosphere in Glasgow during his current investigation into the tangled financial affairs of Rangers FC.

www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/04/09/channel-4-new-correspondent-reveals-physical-threats-over-repoting-rangers-fc

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This is old news.

Thomson has reported the matter to Strathclyde Police.

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You do know it was a spoof twitter account of the journalist that thomson has accused? the guy has already admitted it and the twitter account has been removed.

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24 Apr 2012 16:39:54
Southhampton are still sniffing
around Gary Hooper. Neil needs to
sit Gary down and re inforce the fact
that his form is not great and needs
to improve. Hope Gary stays to
fight for his place.

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I'd take 7m and bring in someone else. Hooper on his day is a great player but he is not consistent enough.

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I'd get rid. 7 million for a striker that is so 1 footed its unreal. Very rarely will he put his head in, and his left peg is for standing on. If we had a Larsson, Hartson, Sutton, even McCoist, we'd have scored most of the chances that Hooper gets and fails with

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For 7 mil I would drive him down there myself, not Celtic class!

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Hooper can score goals and he will score goals in the EPL. Concentrating on his weaknesses is a bit disingenuous. He is an effective player and good striker, however I would take the money and run as we can use this relative fortune to develop and progress other targets/investments.

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Get him sold offers over 6 mill and get rhodes in
bigD

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7 million, bite there hand off

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24 Apr 2012 13:39:08
Well done to under 19's was listening to it on radio. Sounds like we have a great bunch of young stars coming up. This whole rangers fiasco is a joke. They haven't got a leg to stand on. It's got to be Liquidation. I think if it was any other club they would put under by now. What's your own thoughts now ed? You have right all season. Bigirishmac

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Big mac howz you here ahl tell ye who else husnae goat ah leg tae staun oan ,
big ed,heez a low down bum
heehaaaaaaaw awaaaaaaaaay.
tonto shift yur arse thurz wurk tae be dun

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24 Apr 2012 13:44:17
RST Reaction to Draconian SFA Penalties
Tuesday, 24 April 2012 04:03
This is a shameful decision that has been taken with the sole purpose of crippling Rangers Football Club. It is completely unacceptable and fans groups will be meeting to explore how we jointly express our opposition to this decision in the strongest possible terms. This could include protesting at Hampden on on the day of the Scottish Cup Final as well as boycotting SFA sponsors William Hill, Carling and Vauxhall. All options are on the table and no Rangers player or supporter can credibly play in or support the national side until this ridiculous decision is reversed.

Hitting Rangers in this way is in stark contrast to the soft justice dished out to Neil Lennon last week for a string of offences in which he questioned the integrity of the referees and officials. The SFA appears to have one set of rules for one club yet a completely different set for the other.

Despite calls to delay this action the SFA persisted with this case while the club was not in a position to adequately defend itself and had the SFA done its job in the first place on Craig Whyte then this entire saga could have been avoided.

Rangers supporters are appalled by this decision which brings shame on the SFA and the national game.

Think that says it all lmao!

Evinguu

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The SFA must be rubbing their hands & thinking what a shower of eejits we will be dealing with in the RST lol. Yeah, its the same thing. Maybe they should have hit rangers with a tranfer embargo earlier when Kyle Lafferty had Charlie Mulgrew sent off at Aberdeen..thats how ridiculous the statement is. Dear oh dear

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Typical of RST , talk, talk, talk boycott multi national companies, that will hurt them NOT! Still waiting for these great supporters to get their hands in their pockets everytime Murray tried to sell they didn't buy in unlike all the bhoys and Ghirls ( twice)

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If the RST look round Europe they will see this is a standard penalty for financial mismanagement and breaking rules, English lower leagues and Switzerland most recently

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Well said although the sentence onNL was really a back down to the case they never had. I agree with comments about SFA this is not just about Rangers this is about the integrity of our governing body which, until now, has gone unchallenged. Regardless of the Rangers case its time the members of the SFS (the clubs) stood up and said enough of the old bowler and bunnet days

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Iwould assume that the ordinary people of scotland and the UK think that cheating and robbing the other clubs and hmrc more serious offences than NIEL LENNON questioning officials judgement

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And they have every right to be appalled newcastle fan but they are trying to kill rangers a total disgrace no rangers no scottish football

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Evinguu, did you hear Johm McMillan on radio Scotland, when asked about Rangers bringing shame on Scottish football he said "Neil Lennon is the one who has shamed Scottish football" not one ounce of regret, just the usual we hate Lennon rubbish. RFC good bye and good riddance. Timalloy

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Maybe cause lennon was out of order for ten minutes. NOT TEN YEARS.

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I hope the RST are abolished when their club are liquidated. Rangers were punished and rightly so, they have been cheating there way to trophies for years. Keep it coming!

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Just sums up Rangers supporters.

They don't want action taken against their club for their own wrongdoings but then want to punish sponsors of the SFA and the National side.

And as for bringing Lenny into it. Their hatred has no bounds.

I really hope this excuse for a football club dies as soon as possible and does not resurface in another form. It is a focal point for much that is bad with society, and with it's passing Scotland can move forward.

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Why Neil Lennon? What is their fascination with him? The offences are hardly comparible. Also, lennon is still to face another hearing following the hearts game is he not, therefore their comments are even more irrelevant.

Ps. Hope my vauxhall doesn't get trashed!

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EVININ YOU DRaconian thats ma wife yur talkin aboot ya midden

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No hiding place for these people now. reporter should have asked him what he thinks of the letter bomb situation. they've got to go these people. we've taken enough. die rangers.

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It's nothing to do with not wanting actions against for wrongdoings....it's the timing of these actions! They SFA know fine well Rangers are desperate to exit administration by finding a new buyer, yet they decide to hit the club with a fine and a transfer embargo. Why not wait till we have exited administration then hit us with these sanctions? The reason we are in administration is because Craig Whyte got us into even more debt and left us with literally no money, yet the SFA decide to fine us! Aye, very clever!!

.....and to the last poster.....YOU DIE!!

TTG

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TTG a fair point ruined at the end. Previous poster to you shouldnt really have brought the point up like that but it wasnt a personal comment saying someone should die like you did dude. Come on, read between the lines a bitty more surley? but emotions are high so i wont get right on my high horse about that lol

So effectivley rangers should be punished after they have got their problems sorted? no thats not right in my opinion. Its like me getting done for murder but then only facing punishment when i got my life sorted out! Yes financial and embargo punishments are the last thing the club needed, but the club shouldnt have ran the line where this became a possibility. It should have been dealt with sooner but Rangers were found of gross misconduct as a club!, doesnt matter if its an individual who made the decisions, this individual was in charge of the club and the business and therefor both end up facing the sanctions. Like my example, cant commit a crime and then say oh i was a different person that night your honour so i should get off with it cos it was his fault not mine!

If rangers had been going by the rules and everything was rosey and finances and actions of the club were within the rules then none of this would have come around. Doesnt matter if you are in admin, coming out of it or whatever, the rules were broken and this is the punishment! its the whole point of the review, to investigate what they done wrong and punish them if found guilty within the statutes of the game, which has happened. This has pretty much bugger all with the club being in administration!

Evinguu

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The punishment was due to investigation which was done by lord nimo Smith on Craig whyte so all u tax experts at least get ur facts right before going on about rangers!

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Considering they "bought" two players and haven't finished paying for them (while selling one of them) I think the embargo is very fair.
However, if they agreed to pay all football club creditors in full I'd be happy for the embargo to be lifted and suspended.

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Hi Evingu. Loved the baby name comment by the way, lol.

They may claim to speak for the majority but they certainly don't speak for me. I am one Rangers fan (and I hope there are many more out there realistic enough to see the sanctions for what they are - lenient) who is 'appalled' at this 'shameful' response by the RST. Yes the timing isn't great but why the hell try and equate Neil Lennon's misdemeanour's as being judged lightly by comparison (even if he has been) or bring him into the conversation at all. What do the sponsors have to do with it and why bring the national team into it? I tend not to swear as you know but congratulations RST, I can't help it in this instance: FFS what a bunch of f@xkwits! If they want to make a comparison then compare our financial irregularities with those of F.C. Sion and see who has been treated unfairly for a similar crime. We could have faced far worse sanctions than a one year transfer embargo when we have he-haw to buy anyone with anyway. As I said before we should be put into Division 3 and made to earn our place back in the SPL but we all know that is unlikely to happen even if we go down the newco route. The entire purpose of the sanctions we will receive (and like Mr Lennon there are still more to come - probably ten point deduction for three years) are to keep us mid table at best for three years WITHIN the SPL (which they will bend over backwards to do) where we suffer short term for our crimes with a lightweight squad without the rest of the SPL losing out financially due to OUR wrongdoings. They are trying to look after the best interests, and the financial viability, of the ENTIRE Scottish game without hammering us so hard we fold completely. We should be grateful in a sense (despite my preference for the Div3 route) that the governing body wish to retain us in their league at all after the year we have had and what is probably still to surface.

The RST only make one and a half valid points in the whole statement: why wasn't Craig Whyte found out for what he is sooner; and (1/2 point) we had no leadership representing the club's (not the creditors) interests. These issues, which are entirely relevant ones worthy of contemplation, are completely lost within such an idiotic statement. Fx?@ing hell, get a grip FFS! Everyone else hates us enough already. Show a bit of humility and accept the punishments given with the grace we (including myself) accuse Lennon of lacking. F@x? me!

Brian

p.s. Sorry for the language Ed, but these fxxxxxs don't represent me, hopefully I am not alone.

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Brian I wish there were more RFC fans like you....PS Are you sure you dont have some Irish blood in you, you seem far too reasonable and bright to follow the Rangers :) Sopot Celt.

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24 Apr 2012 13:13:57
just took this from www.splsurvey.co.uk/stats.php

There have been a total of 16527 responses.

If Rangers are liquidated and reformed as a Newco, should they be allowed immediate re-entry into the SPL?
No (15782) - 95.49%

Yes (745) - 4.51%

pretty unanimous i would say

bigD

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Aye n how many where Celtic fans probably most

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Why are you not giving the percentage which were Celtic fans. Is it because it then becomes meaningless!

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I wouldnt say it mattered if they were all celtic fans they are football fans of a scottish club and have their right to answer the question that was asked

bigD

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24 Apr 2012 13:35:57
Looking forward to the Olympic football at Hampden this July.I have tickets for the 26th and not a bad opening fixtures to go to.Spain v Japan then after that Honduras v Morocco.Hope Izaguirre makes the Honduras team so i can support one of our own.Hope our scouts are at all the games so we can hopefully spot a gem or two.Some of the players who have went to Olympics before are Messi,Aguerro,Tevez,Kanu,Eto'o,etc so if we can find any players with half their talent then i would be happy.Can't believe only 10% of tickets for Hampden have been sold,thought they would have sold better so i got mine on 1st day.

Jungle Bhoy.

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Sadly our archaic work permit rule might scupper any chance of a young gem........green jhedi

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Here ed av jist spottit sumthin!
aw the playurs thit jumble boay menshund well aw thur namez end in a "O"
how spookie iz that so aw we need tae dae iz look it playurs wae a "O"
eksept fur oo7)

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24 Apr 2012 13:16:39
In the event of a Rangers Newco being allowed immediate re-entry how, as a supporter of another SPL/SFL club would you respond?
I would continue to attend SPL fixtures as normal (1957) - 11.84%

I would NOT attend any SPL fixtures at all (8630) - 52.22%

I would continue to attend SPL fixtures but boycott any fixtures involving the Rangers Newco (5282) - 31.96%

I support an SFL team so don't attend any SPL fixtures (658) - 3.98%

bigD

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24 Apr 2012 11:19:33
Craig Whyte has stated that he has no intention of paying the fine levied on him by the SFA. if he does as he says,and let's remember who we are talking about here,what would the SFA do next?As far as i can see rangers would then be liable,after all he owns them.ED007 any clues? Surely that would be the logical step...........green jhedi {Ed007's Note - If he doesn't pay it they will go after Rangers for any monies due.}

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Well slap ma thighs n call me betty ed yur ah marvul

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24 Apr 2012 00:31:30
Great result for the young Bhoys but how will we keep this upcoming talent? No reserve league, limited numbers on the bench! Unless we can loan some out we will end up having to release them over time. Ed- any word on possible reserve league returning? {Ed007's Note - There are always talks about bringing back an Under 21 league, but nothing ever seems to come to fruition.}

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New League next season,

under 20s

BluePeter

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Pretty sure under20 league agreed for next season now. MIKEYBHOY

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Didnt't they just agree to create an Under 20's league as of next season?

TerribleBeauty

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Ed,i read last week that they are planning a U20 league starting next season.I'll try and dig up the story.

Jungle Bhoy. {Ed007's Note - I must have missed that JB, I would prefer an Under-23 league. It would be more demanding, physical. I always find that Sottish players lose something about the 21 age group]

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Ive heard rangers are to start an under 17s league.... ;0)

Jockdj83

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24 Apr 2012 16:07:25
Here's the link.

http://m.skysports.com/article/football/7667254

Jungle Bhoy.

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Always find that Sottish players lose something about the 21 age group

Yeah, their virginity {Ed007's Note - A long as it's keeping you busy.}

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24 Apr 2012 12:45:32
tell neil lennon to check out piotr
celeban he is a right hand side defender
who is as fast as usain bolt and he
scores goals he is also on a free this summerl

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No worries pal, I was going to phone him later on anyway. Is there anything else you'd like me to pass on to him while I'm at it?!

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Lol very good
bigD

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Why's he not running in the Olympics then?

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Lol above!

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Think that is the best response I have ever seen to a post pmsl

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Hey you we AW new thit that wiz a wind up cos thats no how ye spell petur ya bam

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24 Apr 2012 12:44:23
Rangers fans are 'furious' at the Scottish FA Penalties...why ?

Thought they were quite fair if not lenient considering the charges ~ Mrs E

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17825207

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24 Apr 2012 10:00:12
Double winners 3 years in a row !

Well done to John Kennedy & the Wee Hoops !!

Mrs E

Incidentally, has anyone told Kyle Lafferty ?

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24 Apr 2012 09:58:32
Is it just me or does the rangers fans threats of boycotting SPL sponsors seem futile and misguided?Since the news broke,late last night,of the transfer ban much wailing and gnashing of teeth has been heard from many.There is no doubt that Craig Whyte has been nothing short of a disaster for rangers,check out his response to the sanctions,but if you break the rules there has to be punishment.Of course the fans had nothing to do with this,but the custodians of the club did.Two men,decades apart,have caused this.Firstly the fiver for a tenner man himself,david murray.Secondly,the man who came with a plan,probably liquidation,Craig Whyte.Both have been complicit in rangers woes,murray starting the process and Whyte looking to have ended it.Almost predictably the Daily Record has lined up squarely in the murray camp,Jim Traynor is of course a good friend of his.But to mention murray only very briefly in his piece today,is wrong.He also seems to think that scottish football has "abused and abandoned" rangers.That glee amongst other clubs fans is acceptable,but that glee in the boardrooms is wrong.Why Jim? When rangers started the whole EBT fiasco they started a chain reaction in Scotland.A chain of debt,a chain of foreign imports and a chain of clubs getting into debt which even today is still a millstone round their collective necks.During murray's reckless years how many teams were cheated out of trophies,euro places and hard cash by a team who were playing players that they could not afford? When murray first put rangers up for sale he was hardly swamped with offers.For four years he saw this coming and,in his desperation to sell,took a POUND(little clue their gers fans) for a club that was carrying an unsustainable level of debt. You have to feel for the decent rangers fans in this,but my god they have enough fan groups didnt any of them smell a rat? The rangers tax case blog has been pointing out possible problems for nearly EIGHTEEN MONTHS as has Phil Mac,but that was timmy just being jealous or stirring it.Much better to believe Traynor,Jackson et al with the Billionaire taking over nonsense.Now Traynor says the rangers fans wont forget this and nor should they.Well Jim do you think the Scottish Press might have a part top play in this? Sloppy,tired reporting with PR people slipping press releases into bad reporters hands to be printed as exclusives.Why didnt the fans groups do some research? Why cheer Whyte into ibrox as a hero? Because Keith Jackson said so! So if you want to protest,start at the Record offices,they are as guilty as most in this.......green jhedi

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Green Jhedi, typical Traynor boot licking of Murray, sad but a big fat cat like him will not change his spots. All this Whyte is to blame for everything at Rangers..
Er NO... just seen a post from editor of RTC in which he states that 65 (Yes 65) players had some kind of EBT....
this before Whyte climbed marble staircase.. Also in 2005 the ENTIRE team that won the league had an EBT, as a wee aside (Mr Ogilvie you were at Ibrox at that time care to comment?) So DM (strip him of "Sir") and his directors were fully complicent and knew what they were doing, Traynor print the TRUTH..
Timalloy

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Great post there. Totally agree. The thing that still continues to amaze me is the total apathy among the majority of their supporters. They seem to think that they are untouchable and that any bad news is just some "timmy" stirring things up.
And these various supporters groups, they are a complete joke. Always wanting to get their faces on the telly or their quotes in the paper but seemingly unable to muster up any sort of "inside info" or fan pressure group when they needed too. Completely useless!

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Couldnt agree more

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Last week Traynor and co had the knives out for a very public hanging drawing and quartering for something as serious as questioning a referees decision (thou be it a very public questioning)"17 match ban " was the screams from the rafters.
This week a backing down on all moral standards and a rant at the SFA for addressing something that needed addressed .

A week is a long time in football,......TTTS

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Green jhedi... its not really a surprise, whenever anything negative is thrusted at the club the first thing they think is boycott! has been that way for at least a year now. Maybe even longer. LTSB, BOS, Dundee UTD, THE SPL as a whole, Us, And now sponsors. Yes i agree with them that it is not entirely the fans fault, of course its not they dint choose to break the rules (however never complained about it when it was realised their club did I must add, they just blaimed others and threatened boycotts). There are some shortcomings in the fans but not directly their fault the club got itself into this state.

I dont agree with them that they are the ones being punished. They are not really. The club they support has been found guilty of serious charges which were done in their name and none of them questioned the last 15 years at least of management at the club. So i have no real sympathy in that regard. But i do have sympathy for the fans in respect to the state the club they love being in the position it is in. But this position is self inflicted, over a period of years, by men who they lauded as gods! never questioned where the money came from or where it went etc just carried on with the watp attitude and kept the heads in the sand.

I actually applaud the SFA/SPL for the decisions they have come too. No club should be given an easy ride if it breaks the rules. I think the decision was delayed as they were aware of what is going on with the swiss FA. And with the goings on at rengers compared to the swiss teams they have gotten off lightly!

As for what you said about the journos, are we also really suprised? They chop and change their viewpoint depending on the mood of the day. One day its get them relegated, the next day its we need to help them, the next day its liquidate this sorry bunch and back round in a circle. Jabba being one of the most prominent at this.

The fans cannot hide from their compliance with the media here. On the one hand all you hear from all football fans is dont read the media they are sh*t stirrers. Then when the Bears were told of the wealth off the radar it fitted what they expected for their club! not what the club deserved!Now the club is getting what it deserved in doses.

I can see a lot of these charges being reversed upon appeal though.

Anyways good point Green Jhedi!

Evinguu

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Hi Green Jhedi. Good post and difficult to argue against, particularly in relation to the quality of information provided by the media. The 'cheated out of trophies, euro places...they could not afford' line is still questionable though. EBT's were and still are legal. Rangers 'legally' paid/offered players 'loans' in addition to their standard wage during that period which didn't necessarily require repayment (that is the argument they will put up in their defence anyway and the whole purpose of an EBT whether we agree with them or not - they are for the benefit of the rich). Only if it is proven in court, and the result isn't in yet remember, that dual contracts existed in terms of two 'WAGES' (not one wage and a separate 'loan' payment) which should have been susceptible to tax being paid and a clear indication of tax avoidance is derived at (nothing to do with CW's current mismanagement which is as clear a case of tax avoidance as you can possibly get) shall these claims of 'cheating for years' be truly valid. Is it an ethical and morally correct system? Absolutely not, but who designed it? Certainly wasn't Murray. Murray utilised a perfectly LEGAL system (the same as many big businesses did and still do) whereby he could then 'afford' to bring better players to the club in the same manner all big businesses attract and retain sought after employees (tax free incentives). He didn't default on these 'loans' at any time after all. Man Utd, the richest club in the world, are over half a billion in debt currently. If their owners were to sell to a charlatan similar to Whyte who was unable to sustain the debt, resulting in the mess we see at Rangers now, would the argument still stand regards the success they have achieved over the last two decades? No. One does not equate or relate to the other. Rangers were solvent at the time of sale. Rangers have cheated this season and been found out. That's as far as it should go currently unless the EBT case proves otherwise. Semantics I know but if the EBT's are regarded by the courts/SFA legally as being loans instead of additional wages then there is no case to answer for Murray or Rangers. HMRC have tried and failed to make this argument stick with numerous other clubs in the past and there is no guarantee that it will be any different this time around. The problem for Rangers is that they are not solvent enough currently (all CW's doing in that regard) to last the length of the appeal process that HMRC will instigate. Payments will have to be made to them regardless of the result until HMRC stop chasing a positive outcome in their favour (HMRC would then have to pay all monies received during the appeal back to Rangers if they admitted defeat). That is the dilemma facing Rangers at the minute - win or lose HMRC are gunning for them to set an example to the big EPL clubs who have also 'legally' used EBT's for years and will drag this case through the courts for decades if necessary. That is why a deal is likely to be struck in terms of repayments even if Rangers initially win the case and are cleared of wrongdoing.

As for glee in the boardrooms. I can't believe or understand why any chairman would be happy at the demise of Rangers. The 'rebellious ten' may have more of a say in the future depending upon what happens in the next few weeks. That's all they can be happy about. Otherwise they are risking joining us in insolvency over the next few years. I think that, not for the first time, it is a bit of creative writing by Mr Traynor.

Also the club wasn't carrying an unsustainable level of debt when Murray sold it. The debt levels were perfectly manageable, on a par with Celtic's and reducing year on year (mainly thanks to Llyods if I am being honest). Craig Whyte is the one that has made a hash of managing it as he clearly had no intention of running the club in a 'right and proper' manner for which he has quite rightly received a lifetime ban.

Finally, I do concede that Rangers spending/borrowing and accrual of debt may have encouraged others in Scottish football to unwisely follow suit. Murray didn't force them to do it though so those are decisions for the respective chairmen to consider before laying it all squarely at David Murray's door.

Brian

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Well said. Cant blame the fans (if we were hoest would we not have felt the same about tenners for fivers?). Murray should lose the successful businessman title and the rest who were complicit (sadly this may include John Grieg) should be banned. CW has just finished what was already started

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If ebts are loans and rangers need that money to survive then why are rangers not actively trying to seek the repayment of every loan they ever issued.
On a second note if ebts and the use of them is fine then why didnt every club in the spl use them. Why did celtic decide they were a bad idea and pay any outstanding tax liabilites on them.
Lastly do u then think the correct thing to do if rangers cease to exist is for all the outstanding monies from loans should be placed in a pot to pay creditors. Furthermore why are the aministrators not calling in these loans.
Ps If the loans are loans why and who would issue such a loan. Ive just called my mortgage company and try to negotiate paying it back when i feel like.Surprisingly they like to have a repayment schedule in place otherwise my house would be a gift.

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26 Apr 2012 17:16:36
Hi un-named poster. I, at no point have stated that I agree with the use of EBT's. I actually state that they are immoral and are merely a means of tax avoidance for the rich. All I am doing is pointing out the legalities of the situation and Ranger's LEGAL arguments defensively, as I see them. I am not defending their use within football. You do make some great points however. Why can't the loans be called in? We can all guess the answer to that, they were 'sold' to the players as non repayable bonuses, incentives (an extra tax free wage if you wish), etc. The question is can it be proven that that is the case. Celtic's board obviously saw the catastrophic potential if they were ever to be pulled up for using them by HMRC and quickly did something about it to avoid any trouble in the future. Rangers decided to risk it and are now (potentially) in a whole heap of trouble for doing so. Caution obviously won the day. The interesting part for me is that BOTH clubs used them as a means to pay more to their players and 'legally' dodge tax payments, the only difference being that Celtic quickly realised their mistake and resolved it and rangers took a gamble. In an ideal world the 'loans' would be called in and if what I have read is true then HMRC have the power to not only chase Rangers but also those individuals in receipt of EBT's if they desire to go that far (particularly if they involve offshore accounts). Your example of a repayment plan is also an interesting one as these EBT schemes must have involved paperwork outlining their purpose and payment details. We will just have to wait and see what comes out once the verdict is reached. In short I don't agree with them but, as long as they are used properly (and that is what is being questioned here) they are perfectly legal.

Brian

p.s. I have added a link to a site belonging to a legal firm which details examples of how you can fall foul of HMRC regards the use of EBT's. Very interesting, if somewhat biased, reading.

http://www.sjdaccountancy.com/about/ebt_employee_benefit_trust_guide.html

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24 Apr 2012 08:27:19
Rangers get transfer embargo and fine for bringing the game into disrepute.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17821054

if you're a rangers fan you have to wonder what the sfa think about
FozzY

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You are right the punishment should have been demotion. Not a slap on the wrist fine and unable to sign players(they cant pay for the ones they have so no loss there)

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23 Apr 2012 23:57:32
Christ you watch a film and ignore football for a few hours after a fine sounding performance from the young celts and lo and behold Rangers are splashed all over the place with their hearing results.

Now from what i can see it would seem that they have punished them as much as they could without point deductions and expultion from the league,. Is this enough? possibly, esp with the embargo of anyone over 18 years old but that if i remember correctly is a normal embargo is it not?

What amused me is whytes interview on the bbc from an hour ago - Whyte said: "It's a joke, a complete joke. They've never spoken to me.

"Stewart Regan (chief executive) and Campbell Ogilvie (president) had dinner with me in November they told me it wouldn't be a problem.

"Now they're just reacting to all of the publicity since February.

"Rangers fans can see where the SFA are coming from. We're Scotland's biggest club. They should be helping us, not kicking us when we're down. Rangers fans will remember this for a long time."

Now this cosy little meal sounds interesting, Esp if they told him they would be fine. But it could just be the desperate act of a desperate man!

Banned for life though! i was hoping he would be back in charge of them as a newco!

The bears should cut down on eating birds, they will be spitting feathers! Will be interesting to see their appeal! and what it does to the 'bids'.

Interesting evening. Think more reading is required before i can fully get it in! Still interesting stuff!

Ed, presuming you were at the game tonight?judging by the updates on the site ( just a guess) if you were or anyone else was there, was mcgeoghs goal as good as it sounded?

Evinguu

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I see one of the rangers supporters thingys have threw the dummy oot the pram. it's bias you see. when the rules were put in place the makers of said rules designed them specifically for this day so as to destroy rangers. they may as well just boycott everything on the planet cos theres not much left to not boycott. for once some praise to the sfa (for now) as the bill miller pressure seems to have spectacularly backfired, we will see. just when you think it cant get any funnier ally kicks lafferty oot the club (daen him a favour there ally boy). so now what ally said the other day about bottom six etc seems very ambitious. maybe their not going to get away with this after all.

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Cunfushiz he says " man who is spittin fethurs must be muff divin burds"

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23 Apr 2012 23:57:04
"It doesn't affect my life, I'm just disappointed what it does to Rangers. It's an outrage," Whyte told BBC Sport.
PMSL FozzY

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What a statement that is. the owner of rangers fc says his life is unaffected by the virtual destruction of the club. this guy actually does not give a sh1t. one thing that has come out of this is that we now know that we, the general public, know nothing of the laws which govern the businesses upon which we rely for most of our livelihoods. snakes like whyte make it their business to know all there is and manipulate it for their own profit without a thought for anyone else. it's complicated but probably not as complicated as bringing up 3 kids on minimum wage. it's surprising but wonderfully apt that it was rangers fc which brought this into public focus. it's time that we as a society told the whytes of this world to build a wee nest somewhere far away and crawl into it. as for rangers if it had to be somebody i'm glad it was them.

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