Celtic Rumours Archive November 21 2012

 

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21 Nov 2012 23:30:58
Even tho technically on paper they had a harder group but seein manchester city put out with a game left just shows how good our cl has been this far 2 bein in with a shout of the last 16 considerin our budget and the overall price ae our squad compared tae man citys and havin the best team on the planet in our group and a trip 2 russia which no team in europe relishes. Fair enuf we had a bad result and poor performance last nte but am over the moon wer we r in the group wen a look at the state of city possibly the richest team in the world transfer budget wise and sittin on 3 points after 5 games n without a win n dynamo zagreb no even a goal or a point in 5 games shows how much ae an achievment our group standing at the moment is. Buzzin for the spartak game n no matter wit happens we hav a team 2 be proud of n europe after xmas wether its cl or europa Hail Hail

gunniebhoy

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Was thinking the same thing.
Kiev, Zenit, Ajax, Man City, Braga, Spartak amongst others wont make the last 16. For our Bhoys to still have a chance (albeit with help needed from Barcelona) to qualify, i'd say is a pretty good effort. There is absolutely no dissappointment from me for any performance so far in the Champions League, group stage or qualifying. I think we will make it, with our home support behind the team and Barca having a fantastic attitude to win every time they play should make for a wondeful December 5th. A nice way to celebrate (and remember) my wedding anniversary!

Melb Bhoy

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Haha hopefully a double celebration for u then mate if all goes 2 plan but even if and i mean a massive IF lol worse comes 2 worse and we didnt qualify and went into the europa a dont think any 1 could really criticise the the team after the effort we put in as u said ajax man city these teams wont qualify and they also went straight into the group stages we had 2 play 2 qualifiers an extra 4 games on top of the teams in our group and 2 be still ther 2 qualify with a game left is an outstandin acheivment but am so so confident we wil win the spartak game even with a few injuries n wanyama suspended my only worry is n its not the barca game its the fact spartak hav nothin 2 play for which mite sound stupid but them havin nothin 2 play for n havin no pressure on em will play with a lot of freedom which sumtimes is dangerous but av got every confidence in the team bring on dec 5th HH

gunniebhoy

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Yeah thats a fine point mate, we really must treat it as if they are in the same boat as us. No pressure can bring the best out of players.

Melb Bhoy

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Chelsea may well join that list too !

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No matter what happens now the Champions of Scotland will still end up with more points than the Champions of Engerlund ! Where's that **** Craig Burley when you want someone to laugh at :-)

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Considering the small league status and the financial restraints in comparison to all those teams going out it does show us in an excellent light and more public credit should be given - though I won't hold my breath.
I am extremely relaxed about our final group game in the knowledge that whatever happens we will be in Europe after New Year and that is a steady progression for this young team to keep growing/improving.

JJ

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21 Nov 2012 21:31:21
Ed can Celtic not challenge the cards that were given to wanyama(more so) and Sammy? Are cards given in cl done without the possibility of a reversal? Cause wanyama's was the dumbest one every and Sammys was too as I have just seen Ronaldo wave his hands with more anger more times at the ref and no booking when Sammy got his for one fist pump. I would think that seeing how it is a big Tourny with a lot of money that to lose a player on a poor judgment in the tourny they would be aloud to challenge the card. {Ed007's Note - Sorry but clubs are not allowed to protest a decision made by a referee against a player, unless an error occurred where the wrong player was identified and unjustly punished. Remember Roy Keane in 1999?}

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Its the players fault and we all know it. Its his third booking in five games.

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Don't think you can challenge a yellow card under any circumstances, only red's??

Foxy {Ed007's Note - Only for mistaken identity.}

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Well i think ledley and wanyama are quite similar,.,.kbarry

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21 Nov 2012 19:16:43
Goal for Celtic now 5 mins before HT 17yo Lewis Kidd puts Celtic back into it

Mikey Bhoy

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FT 2-1 Sporting. Need to win away to PSV to have any chance of qualifying as one of the 3rd place teams with the most points. Still great experience for the youngsters tho

Mikey Bhoy

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They are apparently playing well but missing Tony Watt.

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21 Nov 2012 19:05:34
Celtic 2nil down to Sporting, heard they're one of the best teams in the nextgen tho

Mikey Bhoy

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21 Nov 2012 17:07:15
rite edo hows you the nicht?
how much hav sellik made so faur in the chimps leeg?
how much kin they make if we only make it thru tae last 16 bit then "wan scoot n yur oot!"/
cos wan ae thaem sade thit we staun tae make anuthur 3.5? shood we get thru tae last 16? {Ed007's Note - Get your calculator out ;-)

Champions League Group Stage: 8.6 million Euros
Win Bonus: 1 million Euros
Draw Bonus: 500,000 Euros
Last 16 qualification: 3.5 million Euros.

This does not include any share of the market pool (TV money etc).

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Thats 11.5 millions euros we have made so far from our results and being in the group stages not a bad return for a few games lets hope we can keep this going HAIL HAIL {Ed007's Note - Add on our share of the market pool (409.6 million Euros this year), then matchday income and it adds up to a very tidy sum.}

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Dont they get money for goals scored aswell? bigD {Ed007's Note - No mate.}

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Is the OP oor wullie? write/type correctly
this is a pain in the arse to read and it aint funny or cool get a grip,.,.kbarry

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22 Nov 2012 08:32:13
To Kbarry, the OP as you call him is our wee Pat, who brightens up this blog with his wee stories, so get with the programme...
As to the monies gained as our ED007 says we also get our share of tv pool roughly another 6m+ then add on 3 full houses at home another 5m+ then sponsorship and advertising Celtic will make about 20m even if we do not make last sixteen.
I heard another club somewhere else are trying to raise that amount in shares...Timalloy

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Thanks wee man appreciate that

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21 Nov 2012 16:58:26
Some people really need a reality check.ive heard all sort of rants and moaning about individuals after last nite.what we have achieved with a team signed on a tight budget,also for a team with barely any experience at this level or frequency of games-is remarkable.even a europa league spot would have been an achievement at the start and thats achieved with a gane to go.timr to back all the players.im hearin that izzy and gorrest should n bak for the spartak game so that will help ud get the win we need - keep the faith

mk bhoy

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21 Nov 2012 12:31:02
Reflecting on last night's game, it is clear we have a bit to go to compete
in Europe and at home. It looks like the CL games are taking a physical
and mental toll on our players. Lennon and the coaching staff will need to
address this issue. In one way we are lucky, in that with Sevco not in SPL we do not have a stronger sustained challenge for SPL.
OK injuries have hit us hard, but our squad should be able to cope. We need more of our fringe players putting in a shift. Lassad, Miku, McGeouch, McCourt Rogne, M Wilson, etc should all be pushing for a first team place at least for SPL games.
What I am now worried about, is we fail to beat Spartak and have to settle
for a Europa spot. Yes, I know we would all have settled for this at the start but now it will feel like a failure if we do not make last 16. Timalloy

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21 Nov 2012 15:09:54
Wilson is no longer at celtic and i pray to god mccourt is never seen or heard of again...he is absolute gash

Celticthomas

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Hang on a minute, you, like I, would have hoped to finish third in the group, yet you would brand the bhoys failures should they achieve this? I'd be happy with third, more so the improvements that have been made in a year. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that. Anyway, that's why i'll be delighted when Celtic do go through to the last sixteen. Because they will.

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Hi Tim, I think the CL has been a tall order for this young squad and it has reflected on SPL results as you say.
I think (over all) we have been outstanding in the group, however our possession and ball retention in most games was poor and chasing for 70% of games takes it's toll on energy/moral.
It is a very difficult group and the players are gaining experiences money can't buy.
However, if we fall at the final hurdle like happened to MON's team it will be disappointing, but maybe we will be more comfortable with Europa football in some ways and get to grips with winning the SPL to try CL again; a much better team?
Whatever happens the unique night on our birthday against Barcelona will live on and will inspire the players to succeed.

Jungle Jim

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21 Nov 2012 15:46:13
I wont be disappointed if we finish third, I am immensely proud of what the boys have done in Europe this year. Still think we will beat Spartak.

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I see where you are coming from Timalloy i'm with you on this one.

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I think the Europa would actually be a better experience for the Players. Ok last 16 would be great but it would take an absolute miracle to go further and we could be in for a serious doing if we draw the wrong team! Europa on the other hand may give the team a chance to develop at a more reasonable pace and once we get through a round or two who knows we may do very well indeed. The CL experience will stand us in good stead to get through a few ties we could not have hoped for even a few months ago. Remember all the doom and gloom about how good Helsinki were and we would lose to them and all the nonsense about Helsingborg. Well we are better than them by a mile due to the CL experience and I think we could do a great job in the Europa and have some great nights at CP. there are some very decent teams which would attract decent TV coverage etc so we could also make a few sovs. Spoof Celt

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21 Nov 2012 10:12:14
I think last night showed if we are to make any moves in jan it must be for out and out wingers. Commons plays more central as do the rest of our m/f. Forrest and young Dylan the only 2 I can think of. Playing narrow works well at times (Barca) but I can't help but think width would have helped on a big pitch like that last night.

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21 Nov 2012 11:43:47
yeah a bit of running down the flanks would have restricted their full backs who were charging down the wings all night. Pity wee Forrest was injured as I think he could have been a match winner for us

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I agree Forrests play is what was missing. Ball at feet, taking a man on and heading for the corners of the final third. Given that he's the only player capable of this at the club, bring in a markII to compete with him. Reckon Wes Hoolahan would be available for an affordable fee?

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I agree about Wes Hoolahan, i think he is the type of player we need to give us that spark and unlock defences. I had heard he turned down Norwich's latest contract offer but he would maybe still be 3-4million. Wages wouldnt be a problem. What age is he?

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Sure Hoolahan is like 30+ by now but i remember reading a while back he's created more chances than any other player in the EPL! Lennon admitted he's read and took a leaf from the MoneyBall book and thought about sabermetrics...stick Hoolahan in there and theres your creativity. It may be direct mostly but given how much Celtic try and hit Samaras in the air, it's all from deep central positions, never the wings where he can attack it towards goal.

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20 Nov 2012 23:56:36

This is my genuine thoughts, carefully considered and not a knee jerk reaction to tonight's happenings.

Desperately disappointed in the performance of the team tonight. The result was probably as good as we could expect however the manner we set about the task was incipid to put it mildly!

It was clear from the kick off that we paid what I consider to be the poorest Benfica team I have ever seen far too much respect.

Too many players looked for others to take responsibility on the ball and for the ball. In midfield we are becoming more and more reliant on the excellent Wanyama to make things happen. A player by the way who is only marking time before moving on.

Am I the only supporter who believes Joe Ledley to be the most over rated and ineffectual midfielder in Scottish Football?

Also am I the only one who still conciders Samaras a luxury we cannot afford at that level of football? It is acknowledged by all the experts in the game that defending starts with your strikers. We all remember Henrik bursting a gut for the team shuttling across the opposition back four, never allowing them a minute to pick out a pass.

If Neil Lennon is going to continue to select Samaras it's time he had a heart to heart regarding his level of commitment. In my opinion if he put the same effort into regaining the ball as he puts into his exaggerated historonic gestures then he would start contributing to the team effort. {Ed007's Note - I edited your first paragraph, well thought out opinions are more than welcome here.}

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If it wasnt for samaras then there would be no 3pts from the game in russia, and he played a big part in the team making the group stages to begin with. Hasnt he scored in all away games this season too? Had benfica not scored that 2nd he would have been hailed no doubt by fickle fans such as yourself.

Wanyama wasnt any better than ledley tonight, so i think the media circus surrounding him at the moment has clouded your judgement.

I agree benfica are as poor as they have been in recent years, but they do still have a decent 1st 11 and at home they are a very dangerous team. Their fans are the 12th man too. I dont see how anything could have been done to counter that. As it is, not the worst result ever, and not enough for the heads to go down.

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Samaras is a striker - correct? Ask yourself one question what's his goal to game ratio for Celtic? {Ed007's Note - When was the last time Samaras played as a striker? If Samaras was being played as a striker Hooper would not have started the game tonight. His goal ratio is one very 3.4 games for CFC and a goal every 3.7 in his career. I wasn't his biggest fan or anywhere near it but he has shown in the last two seasons that he has improved beyond belief and has shown on his day he can be unplayable. We got beat tonight and there is no point trying to single anyone out for blame. Once again the early goal cost us dearly, it affects the whole tactics of the match when an early goal is scored/conceded. If it wasn't for Samaras we wouldn't even be having this conversation.}

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Nice reply. .H.

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Ledley overrated you having a joke. Lenny should build his team around joe his commitment and influence is second to none. A like big Vic but think he should stop reading his own press at times. A knee jerk reaction mon the last 16 gbnl

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Ah lay off Sammy, Ed is right, if it wasn't for him we'd all have been watching the Bill last night. Ask yourself this, what Service did he get last night. None!.

Lennon took the plaudits for the win against Barcelona and now must accept responsibility for the inept performance tonight.

No balance in the midfield, hooper unfit and disinterested, no defender prepared to put their foot on the ball, just hump it out of defense. Brown is crocked and has a serious decision to make, he is not right but his heart is telling him play on.

How many of the team last night earned pass marks, Foster, Wilson. Not many more.

Two weeks time is our cup final, the biggest game in our clubs history in recent times. I hope we can do the business and I hope Barcelona do us a favour too.

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2 great replies to a knee jerk OP. Under MON we would have lost that game 4 or 5 nil. We are playing poorly in games and still being very difficult to beat. Samaras is playing a huge part in our Euro run and he would be my first pick every game. His commitment is not in doubt. Given the abuse he has taken in recent seasons to not have handed in a transfer request shows his commitment.
As for Ledley, maybe in hindsight he wasn't quite ready for Wednesday night as he was rushed back, but he was not any worse than Wanyama , and he is probably the most UNDER RATED midfielder in Scotland, not over rated.

Joeshmo1888

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To the OP,

Samaras has been outstanding in Europe, his goals and play have whats kept us in Europe and his performances over the last 6 months have been nothing short of fantastic. I have been a critic in the past but he i sstill improving and he is still relatively young. As for Ledley being over rated, you must be watching a different Ledley to me, as his commitment and tackling are great. I wish Hooper had the same heart. for me he could be doing a lot more. Poor performance last night against a decent side. I cannot for the life of me seeing them getting anything in The Nou Camp. Its still in our hands.

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I posted a reply 2 days ago to someone praising Giorgios Samaras (in agreement) - and I said I felt he would score last night. Sorry for repeating myself on the big fella for the umpteenth time but......
People need to look past the obvious with Sammy, he never was a striker - but he is a (very modern) forward. Neil Lennon (astutely) recognised his main attributes (powerful dribbling, pace) and changed the balance of the whole side to accommodate him on the left-hand side of midfield.
Absolutely fundamental to ANY success Samaras has brought to the team from the left-hand side is the completely selfless, constant hard-work that Joe Ledley provides. The guy does the dirty work in midfield, closing down and covering space for 90 knackering minutes EVERY single match. He does a lot of work to cover and help Sammy when we don't have possession. He is an unsung hero and if he was missing for a lengthy period we would struggle.
Benfica do deserve some credit for their tactics last night - obviously the early goal scuppered our counter-attacking plans - but their bold, attacking formation forced our full-backs to the 18 yard line early on, and we struggled from there on in. However, I do agree with a reply above and said the same thing last night - we were poor - but Benfica had to work extremely hard to beat us narrowly. We are a decent side!
I would have bitten your arm off for 3rd after the draw was made - but I'm confident we will do the business at home against Spartak. In Lennon We Trust................kbt1978

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I am one of the many Celtic fans that dont rate Samaras ,his work rate is poor he seldom runs past a defender and looks for the backward pass continuously .For a big he is useless in the air his goals per game ratio is terrible.Whilst we all have an opinion I am in the camp that says Sammy should go.

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Sammy, useless in the air?? Spartak away, Barca away, benfica away. 3 headers. 3 goals

Samson

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Sammy should go??
And where exactly would we be in our Euro campaign without him

Joeshmo1888

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This is not a knee jerk reaction, but that was one of the worst defensive perfomances i have seen anywhere in a long, long time. From midfield backwards, the whole team looked utterly petrified, we created more of their chances than they did. We had people there in numbers, but they were completely ineffectual. Yet again our inability to retain possession caused us no end of problems. My only suprise is how long it took them to get the second and the relief it was only 2-1. Forster was outstanding. If we do dip into the transfer market, i hope that it is for an experienced midfielder who can calm and settle those around him. At times it was like watching a pinball machine in operation, for most of the game our passing was poorly chosen and poorly executed. Big, big improvement needed for last game.

chasaboy

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We went into last nights game with 2 players having their first game back after injury [ledley and hooper] and scott brown who despite his commitment and sheer determination to carry on isnt fit enough to do so. at cl level there is no room for passengers . ledley and brown gave everything they had i must add, hooper should have been left in glasgow. all that said if commons had lifted his head and rolled in kayal at the death we would be in the last 16 already. as for samaras he has scored in all 5 away games in europe this season and if memory serves me correct the last away game last season. am sure ed will know who the last celtic striker to do that was ? {Ed007's Note - Off the top of my head I would say Samaras is the first to do it.}

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Chasaboy

For me, the defence was prob the best thing about the team last night. Forster was his usual self, couldnt do anything about the goals, ambrose won nearly every header, wilson threw himself in front of everything, lustig kept john quiet and matthews played well against prob the most dangerous player on the park in salvio.

You can pick holes in all the performances if you want, but the fact of the matter is benfica are dangerous at home. Theyve lost twice there this season against better teams than celtic have faced domestically, yet you think it should be easier to get a result there than at say, parkhead? Jog on

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I stick by my opinion, that the defence looked terrified, don`t remember picking up many second balls which comes back to poor passing and not being able to keep any possession of note. Ball retention, in Europe especially, is essential, as without it there is no respite, and teams will just attack you in waves. Let`s just put it down to an off day, we all know they can do better.

chasaboy

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Thanks ed, i cant recall any striker scoring in 5 or maybe 6 consecutive away games in europe. chasaboy ! on the three occasions we have played benfica away , 2 of which i was at so memory is hazy ! we played well below our form at the time, 3 different managers and squads ! is there a burden we carry when we play in lisbon and a weight of expectation which we struggle with at the scene of our greatest triumph ? we reverted to type on tuesday a bit and looked nervous and tentative throughout.

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I agree with all remarks in the original post Sammy MUST GO.Every point you make is a valid one ta ta Samaras

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