Celtic Rumours Archive June 15 2012

15 Jun 2012 23:33:59
ED hope you dont mind this but i will try again, It seems my post got cut off and muddled up by the bloody phone during sending.. Apologies for the length everyone but ive not done one in a while... it had to come sometime lol

For me this clonegers situation has still too many questions than answers. Yet we are met by a bewildering lack of knowledge, disregard for clarity and a distinct lack of understanding from fans(me included)from the media(no surprises) the clonegers themselves(no surprises) and the football authorities (no surprises)

What we are left with is a massive jigsaw that doesnt have all the pieces, has pieces from a different puzzle mixed in, no picture to work with and a table thats too small for the puzzle to fit.

along the line i hoped clarity would be enforced on the situation, this never came (well not from the right sources) that reason, sense and understanding of the various connotations to the recently deceased business and football dealings. But we are left to piece together said jigsaw with an inept FA, a corrupt club and woeful journalism.

Still so many questions to be answered, What happens with the history, one place says its intact, sense and logic says its not, law is generally ambiguous but generally points to no history being transferred. I know which one i beleive but nowhere has the balls or knowledge to come out and say this is exactly the case(talking about the club, the msm and the FA/SPL here of course). This being the case why is a club being allowed to make bravado like claims of being the same entity but not at the same at the same time, are the clonegers suffering from multiple personality disorders?

now we have ambiguity over whether cloneco is responsible for previous clubs sins. IMO they are nothowever, they have a bearing on what the new club is, what it stands for and how we should deal with their application to the SFA/SPL. This is not punishment for them for previous misdemeanours but simply looking at all avenues available on the merits and downfalls of allowing them back into the SPL. Yet the club itself claims its previous history, But refutes its historical liabilities and wrongdoings so which is it?. You cant have your cake and eat it too, this is where we needed and wanted a strong FA to step in and say what is what.

We also have to consider the threats. Both from newclub fans and the veiled ones from the club and its less than convincing new commander and cheif. Should a club be allowed to hold the entire game to ransom? its not their ball! they used to own some of it but they burst it so should the rest of us run away from them and not invite them out to play again ... possibly not depending on the votes that are coming.

But we then have to talk money and lets be honest where everything lays these days. No money no nothing seems to be the general social mantra even outwith football. But once again should we be held to ransom on 2 fronts here by the newclub and by sjy who have been proven ato be a less than reputable company over the years and who it appears have some almost illegal and iunsavoury clauses in their contract with our games governing body. We are back to who do we trust. Do we trust the media? who tell us clubs will die, do we trust the clubs? as general consensus is they will cut their cloth accordingly do we trust the newco who have spun everything as much as possible and whos previous incarnation who took everyone and themselves for a ride or do we trust the ever silent and ever inept football authorities in scotland? Well i know where my belief lies there.

So what now for the future? so many unknowns, so many things buried away, so many things ignored in the hope that they go away yet we are all left in limbo. It is not going to go away unless we allow it. It is not going to get better unless we all make informed decisions but how is this possible with the crap we have fed to us from all'Sources' (no offence Ed lol)

we stand on the edge of self implosion, at the same time we stand on the edge of enforced implosion caused by a solitary piece of the scottish football jigsaw. In the same breath we stand on the edge of a new dawn with a possibly brighter future fair to all and more open and educated about all possible scenarios. But which will we end up with? sadly we have to hope those with the power take the right course of action.

Evinguu {Ed007's Note - I got it mate, that should be it now.....}

Evingu - I thought it was going to be quite juicy when you started -

"Apologies for the length everyone but ive not done one in a while"

K-Dot.

Haha K-Dot... i wrote it on the loo im easily distracted and can type and say what im doing rather than sticking to the point... oh dam ive done it again havent i? lol

Evinguu {Ed007's Note - You wrote it on the loo? Is your Mrs trying to poison you mate?}

Lmao ED, No that was a lie, was just trying to steer it away from sexual deviancy and toilet humour was only thing i could think of, showing my mental age here lol ok im going to shut up now, im digging a right big hole for myself lol

Evinguu {Ed007's Note - Ladies and gentlemen (and Pat), I give you our very own 'Evinguu.... why use one word when you can use two'.}

Evinguu...I would say they don't lose their history as such. It will always be the history of Rangers PLC but it ends. There will never be anymore than 54 titles for Rangers PLC, it no longer exists. The NewCo has no history, it only started yesterday or thereabouts so would be doing well to have won anything..its not even in a league and won't be playing in Europe for 3yrs at least lol. Its not called 'NewCo' for no reason. Mrs E {Ed007's Note - Right that's the argument over. A 'wummin' has said it now. They are always right!}

Well K-Dot's mind is elsewhere and Evinguu's in the bathroom. Honestly..Men! Tut ~ Mrs E

Obviously is anyone disagrees...lets be hearing it.

Mrs E exactly correct, Just trying to fathom where the arguement that they will keep history and continue it comes from. And feel it need adressed somewhere with influence to put a lot of things to bed.

Ed now come on for every one word someone uses i at least use 10

Evinguu

We stand on the edge of boring. You Timmys cannot have it both ways, if you want us with no relation to the oldco then why do you want us to accept oldco punishments?

How can a newco retain players history and stadium but leave all the debt and wrongdoing behind without any punishments?! It just doesn't work if it was that easy a lot of other clubs and company's would do the same. As far as I take it it's a new company number forced by liquidation so it's an entirely new club with NO history!!

Campsie Tim

Dam i usually just take a paper in with me, anyway this has to get dealt with now as a ger i accept div 3 if it doesnt happen we are gonna see all clubs just say f@ck it lets do a newco. Though as post below says sly might try to use their power which tbh they do have un fortunately....
craig+newcobabybear

Sorry Ed - I meant to respond to Evinguu's rantings immediately after reading his post but I feel asleep about a third of the way through. Is it really just us Rangers fans that 'want our cake and eat it'? I've said beforethat if the 'oldco' is consigned to history then EVERYTHING should be consigned and not just parts that suit individual posters, etc. I do, however, think that SPL clubs are in a no-win situation regarding 'the vote' - especially with the threat of Sky pulling the TV deal. However I reckon that the vote will go AGAINST 'newco' Rangers but not, necessarily, for the 'sporting integrity' argument but to ensure that Rangers' vote (which technically no longer exists) falls to another club (Dundee/ Dunfermline or whoever) with a view to all other SPL voting against Celtic as they may see fit. Imagine the SPL Chairmen getting together to vote for a percentage of gate money going to away teams - even 10% of a 50K average Celtic home-gate would cost Celtic around � 3 million per season without changing the voting structure. If Rangers were to start off in Division 3 and (lets assume) it takes three years to get back to the SPL, Celtic could 'potentially' have forked out � 9 - 10 Million to other SPL clubs. With that in mind the other SPL chairmen can 'collectively' work out something to make up for lost or lesser TV revenue at Celtic's expense. See you all in three years guys????

Bored bear, we are not saying that. we want you punished if you are claiming to be the same club, which you blatantly are not.. yet all we hear is that it is the same club, You lot want to keep the good bits but get rid of the bad.. sorry pal thats not on! and thats what your supposed club whatever they are at the moment are trying to do. So im seeking clarity on which it is going to be! the old club dragged the game into disrepute and the new club is starting as the old one left off with the same false bravado!

Evinguu

15 Jun 2012 20:27:26
1st time post. There have been various discussion by numerous Parties about sporting integrity. There have also been discussions around Sly Spurts pulling the plug /not renewing the contract for the TV deal if Rangers are not allowed straight back into the SPL.
By my rational, Sly Spurts are effectively sanctioning / encouraging
the SPL to disregard their sporting integrity.
Surely as a Sports media company, (And part of the News International
Group) being associated or seen to be encouraging a lack of integrity will be harmful to their Sports brand.
A campaign to Sly asking for their backing to help maintain the
integrity of the game (by not requiring Rangers back in the SPL) will be the best thing for their brand.
Sly have an opportunity here to demonstrate To the world that they believe in the integrity of sport, not just cash. Given it is the SPL it would not cost them a lot. (they may well get more customers because of it)
Scottish Football fans unite to campaign Sly to give a demonstration of their backing for the integrity of the game.

Thought please.

Has Sly actually said anything offical ? I don't know about this, say the other SPL clubs vote them back in but the newco are so poor they get relegated..then what, match fixing to avoid it ? Just throws up too many questions for me. Mrs E

Sly Sports......integrity before cash?! You really are having a laugh!

AC75

Dont believe the HYPE.

Sly betrayed Scottish football a long long time ago. They, IMHO had an agenda and by and large what they wanted has come to pass. I wouldn't give them another thought. Lets get back to a 3 o'clock kick off on a Saturday, highlights on a Saturday night at half ten and 2 o'clock Scotsport just before your chicken dinner on a Sunday. If you want to see a live Scottish match get aff yer erse and get to the ground. We can watch live football with Internationals and Europe when there will be so much demand for tickets at CP that DD will have to build that long discussed new stand. Come on the Hoops! Sopot Celt {Ed007's Note - SLY TV have said they have no plans to alter their coverage of the SPL.}

Rangers fan here peace out in my opinion sly should not pull the plug at the end of the day we have too take the punishment and move on to div 3 hopefully we will come back a better and stronger club i only wish some of the old rangers board would come out and say sorry greed has been our downfall true mistakes were made and feeling are running high which i can understand its genuine rangers fans like myself that have taken the brunt of this my only crime that i love my club just like you love your club davie bear {Ed007's Note - You are exactly the type of fan I genuinely feel sorry for mate. I might wind people up and say things people don't like but I do genuinely feel for all the guys like yourself.}

Totally agree bud sly should see that by making any kind of demands on Scottish football that Celtic and newco are competing in the same league is actually detrimental to our game and in turn the product the are paying for! Everyone in a position to influence sporting integrity and honesty in our game are driven by money above all else let's not kid ourselves !
If the newco are allowed to take over where the old club left off without appropriate punishment then I would suggest that spl fans unite for the good of our game and don't attend any game involving newco until people see that fans want sporting integrity and honesty in our game not money.

Unfortunately money talks , i as a gers man agree with fellow fan id rather start div 3 work our way up the right way on good foundations and gain respect but and its a big but other chairmain might not see it that way the spl is debt ridden just look at epl those chairmen creaming their pants over 3.2 bil .. i would love to start again get the right people in but (again) if we are allowed to stay in spl other chairmen might just do the same killie, hearts , utd go newco it has to be dealt with now our our game is gonna go tits up quickly.. p.s heard a story about falkirk that the reason they stepped off the gas last season was because they couldnt afford to be in spl , might just be a bitter bairn but in a strange way might make sense..
craig+newcobabybear

15 Jun 2012 16:18:33
Hi ed was talking to a few mates of mine about ki and was just wondering if you know whether or not he will have to do his 2 year military service soon cheers davie c {Ed007's Note - The rules are players must do 18 months national service before their 29th birthday.}

As I understand it he gets a dispensation for representing his country. {Ed007's Note - It actually has the opposite effect. Read up on the Park Ch-Young from Arsenal situation.}

Thanks. Realise that if he had played in the Asian games in 2010 and won gold he would have been exempt. But it is as you say. {Ed007's Note - Yes I remember that now. I think that was a deal that was struck but Ki didn't even play did he?}

Would this possibly put teams off putting a bid in for Ki? {Ed007's Note - I wouldn't see it as a problem. Dave only turned 23 in January so if he signed a 5 year contract with a club he could see that out then go and do his national service and still only be 29/30 by the time he has done that.}

15 Jun 2012 14:29:02
hey 1st time posting on this, your doing a good job ed, was thinkng bout the the current situation and the tv deal with sly sports, if they do pull out of scottish football then why dont all football fans phone up and cancel there sly deal or threaten, surely sly would want to loose a number of subscribers and they may rethink there spl deal? whats your thoughts?

liam {Ed007's Note - Welcome to the site Liam and thanks. I have said before that I don't think supporters of any team should subscribe to SLY. It disgusts me the way football in general prostitutes itself to TV the way they do. Tell SLY to ram their contract and their subscription IMO.}

They have jus gave the EPL a deal worth 3 billion, a don't think scottish football fans canceling their Sly would make a difference. {Ed007's Note - I don't want to make a difference, I just want Scotland to tell them to f**k off! We don't need them.}

If scottish fans en masse cancelled sly there would never be a sly deal again, Which is a good thing for morality but not financially.

Without going off on a rant like i did further down the page the other night. This said maybe with the Levison enquiry BslyB may have to cut the cloth a little after getting massive fines for news international?

Evinguu

Would love to tell them to stuff there subscription but my we 6 month old boy loves the micky mouse club no can do lol ...jc {Ed007's Note - He could just watch The Zombie Rangers, they are a bit of a mickey mouse club.}

15 Jun 2012 12:25:12
Why is is tv always about sly? In this day and age it is possible to pick up satellite tv quite cheaply from other foreign providers I for one have watched many celtic games on French tv. If the SPL were to strike a deal with one of these providers selling an SPL only package I'm sure many would buy.
Welshbhoy

Where did you get it ?

Would like to know about this channel as well .Thanks

Ma chaine sport on 19.2e showed quite a few games last season
Welshbhoy

15 Jun 2012 09:38:45
Ed when do you think the 1st new Glasgow derby game will take place Celtic v Newco?. I think the only way it will be next season is if we are drawn in the cup, i just don't think the newco will get enough votes to stay in the league. maccabhoy {Ed007's Note - I think Zombie Rangers are going to struggle to have everything in place to have a club for next season.}

Can always bring back the Glasgow Cup to skellp them o/

15 Jun 2012 08:19:23
Hi Ed - Is it just me being a paranoid CFC supporter or does this latest investigation by SFA on the finances of all the clubs not seem a little suspicious? I reckon they are doing this under the guise of transperancy but in actual fact to put clubs under pressure to ensure the newco get to stay in SPL (make sure everyone has a wee bit mud sticking to them which would be conveniently washed away after the vote). Any thoughts? {Ed007's Note - If they are cleaning up the game they might as well do it right. Then nothing can come out in the future.}

15 Jun 2012 10:01:09
Having watched that programme on STV last night i was shocked how one sided it was, rangers player, rangers blogger. I don't like the BBC however at least their programmes aint as bias!

Few points, Could anyone tell me how D&P valued rangers assets at £120m, and Green has now bought them for £5.5M? Why were the assets not put on the open market? I'm sure NCP would have liked to bid for the albion car park. How can rangers effectively f*ck the creditors by keeping ibrox, murray park etc? Allegedly the players were valued at £8m!

As i understand it, "zombie rangers" will now start a new company free from debt (probably in the SPL). The tax man will go after whyte and murray. Zombie can get investment from mccoll and park to buy/keep players without the creditors getting any more money? This can't be right?

DazzaBhoy

Agreed, the whole focus was on Scottish Football needs TRFC 2012. Interesting the the tax expert who began questioning D&F and the valuation of Ibrox and Murray park was swiftly removed

Dazza I asked that the other day about the �5.5m..what can I say, start as they finished and as they mean to go on. Scamming !

Didn't think it was so much one-sided as just a really poor programme from the STV to draw an audience. It was not informative nor did it give any insight into life without the football team formally known as Rangers. One hour of my life lost. Mrs E

One sided did you miss Mr Kelly screeching at the top of his voice for Rangers to be stripped of all titles and for them to be awarded to Celtic. This from the person who almost took Celtic into oblivion!

Totaly agree with original post.

I'm sure if I went to the bank and said lend me 5.5m and I'll pay back 50m when I sell the big hoose & 'conveyor belt' they would jump at it.

Makes you think all along that having a poor CVA rejected was the plan all along so they could then plunge their millions into a Newco with no dept and still have assets. That's why we have no other choice but to send em down to Div 3.

Richybhoy

15 Jun 2012 07:41:24
Morning Ed

Hearing that FF is a target for Villa and they could get him for 3 mil

@briefcaset**t