Celtic Banter Archive December 09 2015

 

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09 Dec 2015 22:17:12
Another great result for Gent tonight! A club on a lower budget than ours reaching the last 16! Finishing above Valencia and Lyon where are we going wrong! 3 years ago we are beating Barcelona now we are away to play a nothing Europa league game cause we are already out! Makes me sad! I watched Real Madrid last night put 8 past a team that beat us and was so glad we never made the champions league it would of been embarrassing! We need to accept have got backward over the last 3 years and nothing looks like changing its sad to see! I hope we play your nessbit tomorrow would be good to see him get his chance and hopefully more will follow cause let's be honest I would rather have a team full of our own good young player then the P**h we have bought over the last 3 years!

Believable3 Unbelievable1

09 Dec 2015 23:02:40
great to see, but its a one off season really if you look back over the last 4/5 years. We can't just be compared to the current best team on a low budget. It shows it is possible but it also shows that on a lower financial budget its almost impossible to do consistently.

Fully agree about nesbitt though and other younger players. Personally looking forward to the next few seasons and the possibility of nesbitt, henderson, tierney and others getting the chance to play and hopefully becoming a big part of the team.

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09 Dec 2015 23:07:56
Three years ago we robbed Barcelona. The Barcelona result is a constant Ace card people play and it's ridiculous. A year later we didn't have Fraser Forster playing the game of his life and we conceded six going on ten. By your rationale Morton could be questioning what went wrong; three years ago they were beating Celtic.

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09 Dec 2015 23:35:46
Imo we're far too loyal first of all to players who are either past it or not good enough technically on the ball at a higher level, when I say past it I mean past their sell by date and for me these three are well past it. I'm talking guys like Mulgrew, Stokes and Brown for starters. These guys should never have received new contracts when they did and are on between £10-20K each in salary a week, have we had anyone slamming the door down wanting to purchase these guys? No, the simple reason for that is that they are incapable of even doing the basics right at a higher level, we're also stuck with them as there's no way they'll be able to get such wages elsewhere. We're also stuck with Brown as captain as well meaning he must play every game when fit regardless of form which fair enough if he's a very decent player but fact is he ain't imo nowhere near it and his limited ability is costing us at a higher level. See his stupid header back to Malmo in which they scored from to make it 2-1 at CP as one example of a high profile error in a massive game, he plays in one of the most important areas of the pitch and it's unacceptable that we've accepted it for soo long. Let's not forget Mulgrew played a massive part in our defeat in Malmo and was so shambolic I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. These guys were made to look a lot better than they were/are by guys like Ledley, Kayal, Wanyama, Hooper, Samaras, Matthews, Van Dijk etc who hid the weaker players limited attributes which are now shining through that they don't have these guys around them anymore.

Added to this bad recruitment, the trio from Dun Utd, a side which finished fourth behind St Johnstone in one of the poorest leagues in Europe and also lost to them in the SC final all playing in that game we thought that these three would improve us at European level, utter madness from the board or whoever sanctioned these signings. Boeriggter and Pukki as much as they were a massive waste of money when fit Boeriggter is a far better winger than both GMS and Armstrong and Pukki a far better striker than Ciftci. All three of these players took part in the Qualifiers and all three failed miserably playing vitally important positions on the pitch.

Bad recruitment once again crops up with another important area of the pitch being CB, we knew Denayer was leaving, his replacement a shambles who again can't do the basics in positioning and even passing a ball to a team mate. Such an inferior player to Denayer but with players such as Lustig and Ambrose who imo play CB a lot better than Boyata would have been better options. I'm not saying we didn't need a CB, of course we did but a guy who barely played at all at his previous club and was only kept they're for years because he qualified as a home grown player at Man City meaning they could bring more foreign players in again should never have been signed in a vastly important area of the pitch which we needed someone a lot more solid.

These players plus the massive drop in form the likes of Gordon and Johansen have suffered this season which fair enough it happens but then to continually play these guys when in this form which is what Ronny has been doing again it utter madness and there's no real excuse for it and it's got us to where we are just now. Throw in players like Izzy who we know can be hit and miss at times and Griffiths who no disrespect cannot be trusted to score goals at a higher level as he misses too many chances for me and again it's led us to where we are.

The bottom line is we have far too many players who can't do the basics right playing week in, week out and and are so technically inferior at European level it's frightening that we're even relying on these guys. This is why we find ourselves where we are and we are stuck with a massive squad full of bang average players on over inflated wages who we can't shift as no ones interested in their services and and they the players themselves know they won't get the same wages elsewhere which is why they will be going nowhere for as long as their contracts last and we're stuck with them. Also getting rid of guys like Kayal and Watt as well when imo they would have made a much bigger impact at European level than some we currently have again is a mistake on the boards half in getting rid of these players when we should have held on to them.

Agree3 Disagree3

10 Dec 2015 00:01:39
Anyone who says we robbed Barcelona is probably not really a Celtic supporter. We set out our tactics to frustrate Barcelona and try to get something on the break away . This was a very legitimate tactic attempted by teams with far more resources than ourselves. Some of these teams haven't been able to complete the task . What was particularly pleasing for Celtic fans was that we tried the same tactics in Barcelona and only lost by a freakish goal in injury time .
Of course teams like Gent will get to the last 16 once or twice. , just exactly as Celtic have . However if your mind is filled with negativity regarding Celtic, then I suppose you can find a reason to forget how well we have done in Europe over the last 15 yrs punching above our weight .

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10 Dec 2015 01:04:20
No one Old Bhoy is forgetting the achievements we have had in Europe over the last 15 years in punching above our weight, in fact it's the polar opposite it's these that we're giving examples of of how far we've fallen over the last couple of years compared to what we were doing and being embarassed. Are fans entitled to expect us to defeat Legia Warsaw, Malmo, Maribor and Molde over two games? Imo, for when comparing our budget in comparison to those sides then yes we are, the fact we aren't means we are not getting anywhere near value for money with our squad which is why the situation had to be looked at last season when we lost to both Legia and Maribor. Roll on a year when we're expecting the same mistakes to be ratified against a similar standard of team namely Malmo and Molde and again the same problems are continuing. Why should we be hopeful of it being third time lucky?

You may say sides with smaller budgets have in the past defeated teams with bigger budgets over two games which is true just look at us defeating Spartak Moscow over two games under Lenny for example. But this isn't a one off, it's not just Legia, it's also Malmo, Molde and Maribor. Even scraping past teams like Astra and Dinamo Zagreb last year making hard work of them showed how far the standards have dropped in such a short space of time. Celtic Park was once a fortress in Europe and I'm talking even after the MON days, Strachan preserved it and then Lenny did to an extent although he did lose three at home to Barca, Juventus and a poor AC Milan side, but these were disappointments, not embarassments. Ronny has now lost at home to Maribor, Molde, Salzburg and Ajax. A complete other caliber of opposition, I will not include Legia since technically that wasn't at Celtic Park. Our home record has become severely tarnished under Ronny and it will take a lot to recover from it.

Added to this I can't see anyway in which Ronny will drop the duds and under performers namely Boyata, Johansen, Armstrong, Brown and Gordon. I just can't see this situation changing as Ronny is stubborn in his ways and mark my words if ANY of these five play again in next years qualifiers then we will be out on our lug again, I don't trust Ronny to wake up and dispose of thse five, possibly one but not all of them. Someone be honest with me right now and tell me if they expect Ronny to drop these five players from the side because they are giving us nothing and are in fact hampering us when we step up in Europe. I'm not going to even discuss the likes of Blackett, Mulgrew, Stokes, GMS and Ciftci as I'm pretty sure Ronny won't be playing those players that much anyway.

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10 Dec 2015 02:11:21
Got to laugh, we robbed Barcelona that night plain and simple. Forster played a blinder, pulling of saves that were simply unbelievable.

We keep going on and on about one good result, this same team lost to Morton, Raith, Kilmarnock and a few other poor results . Utrecht remember them, last minute winners against Karagandy.

It's clear we have signed some rank rotten players, it's clear stupid errors have cost us some really good chances to win games and of course Lady Luck has deserted RD in Europe.

PL will not change anything, we have to accept our club have missed the boat in becoming extremely dominant at home, we should have had 5 trebles in a row coming up, we don't, we should be signing at least 1 or 2 really good players each year, we don't.

RD should be supported, yes I know things ain't great at the moment but all big clubs have at some point taken steps backwards in order to progress. I have called for RD to go but why bring in a Keane or Lambert or even Moyes when recent records show failure.

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10 Dec 2015 03:01:33
@OldBhoy

"Anyone who says we robbed Barcelona is probably not really a Celtic supporter. "

Really? I'm suprised at you - you're better than that.

"We set out our tactics to frustrate Barcelona and try to get something on the break away. "

Yeah a couple of teams have done that to us this season - although for some reason it's okay for us to do it, but if it's done against us it's the managers fault, the players fault, the opposing manager parked the bus yadda yadda yadda.

I agree it's a legitimate tactic - but it's anti-football of the highest order. And FYI I'm not saying it was wrong. It wasn't. It worked - but for us to pull it off against a team of that calibre requires luck. As I said, they put six past us the following year, which I agree ED, was one of the lowest points for me in terms of Celtic in Europe.

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10 Dec 2015 04:25:15
All this talk about budgets and we have bigger budgets so we should be winning against the likes of malmo molde legia etc the answer is simple we have squandered our big budgets on crap but what these teams have done which rd is trying to do now is invest more in youth. developing players thst takes time a lot of it that's why gent we hadnt heard of 3 or 4 years ago in last 16 of cl they brought their own through and are reaping the rewards in a couple of seasons time we will be too and we will still be champions in that time.

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10 Dec 2015 07:46:49
Its really simple.
We chuck away money on mediocre players hoping to get that gem which will turn a profit. Our scouting people are just not good enough.
The current board are not ambitious and Europe is not their priority. Lining their pockets is though.
We can't beat the teams everyone is talking about because we sell our half decent players at first opportunity. There is no chance of getting a consistent side together and keeping it for a few seasons. We are a stepping stone, nothing better.
ANY manager will struggle under the current policy and the only winners are the people picking up the annual return.

Agree0 Disagree0

10 Dec 2015 08:33:18
Sometimes you come on to this forum and you can't believe what your reading. People are so desperate to defend rd ( which I have no problem with if you believe In his long term plan it's your prerogative to defend him) . But to use us beating Barcelona as a case for the defence is hard for me to take in. We robbed barca? No we beat Barcelona fair and square. Just like we beat Karagandy fair and square to qualify for the cl. I would have bitten anyone's hand off for a last minute goal to beat Malmö or Maribor. In what world are we going to beat Barcelona any other way. Do you think if we stick with rd for a few years we will be out playing them. We can't even out play molde at the moment so it would have to be some improvement. The point is no one in world football can out play barca. It does my head in when people continue to point the finger at the past to defend what's happening just now. We are all celtic fans so beating Barcelona and Karagandy who of us didn't love those evenings. No one. They are just referring back to them now to make a cheap point. Just like losing to Barcelona 6.1 and losing to Morton and killie and st mirren were massive lows. We have had some highs with rd but a lot of lows and the way this Europa group has gone is a lot lower than losing In the nou camp and the point is I believe we are getting worse. So if you believe In rd and think the blame lies elsewhere that's fine by me its your opinion. But don't cheapen your argument by highlighting the nature of previous successes. I would take the style we beat Barcelona and Karagandy over the current set up any day of the week.

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10 Dec 2015 11:22:30
Stef88 Gent didn't bring their youth through where did you get that from? They simply bought well enough within their budget which allowed them to compete enough at that level and give it a good go, it's paid off and they're though to the last 16 at the first time of asking as that's their first ever participation in the CL Groups.

Last night they started with only 4 Belgians, the rest were made up of two Brazilians, one Serbian, one Swiss, one Danish, one Ghanian and one Nigerian. Then a further Israili and Malian came off the bench for them. It's called good recruitment nothing to do with allowing their youth to come through.

There is absolutely no way we can rely on a team of Browns, Mulgrews, Gordons, GMSs, Armstrongs or even Griffiths' for that matter at that level. Utter nonsense to suggest a team of Scots will get us there as this year has proved we failed miserably at it and these guys aren't cut out for it.

The only way we'll get there again is if the manager shows some ruthlessness in the team which ousts these players I've mentioned above and a few others and we see a good few players brought in of decent quality over the next couple of transfer windows and they bed in quickly. No chance otherwise.

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10 Dec 2015 15:32:50
@Garybhoy1888

If you can't believe what you are reading it's probably got more to do with the bias and assumptions you are bringing to that which you read, than the post itself. You've set up your post with a viewpoint, and went on to prove/disprove a point - but unfortunately as you haven't read the original post correct, your entire post has, at best, little to do with the original point I made, and at worst it's essentially a strawman.

At no point was I defending Ronny Deila. I didn't even mention his name. I was talking about this constant need to hark back to this result. If you had read my post properly, you would have saw that I said the tactics were spot on - and I was thrilled with the result. That said, you can't deny the way we played against them is the very same way we complain that smaller teams play against us - and on such occasions it's never just tactics. You need a lot of luck to get a result playing like that. That's why it doesn't happen often - but when it does, it usually involved keepers playing unbelievably, or strikers having an off day etc.

When Morton beat us, we were robbed. When Kilmarnock beat us, we were robbed. And not in an "ICT semi-final bad decision" way. In a "rope a dope" or "snatch and grab" way. It's fine it happens - but to start on with the we won fair and square is just insulting everyone's intelligence. That's not what I was getting at and you know it. We all saw Chelsea win the Champion's League in the most embarrassing way possible. They robbed more than a few teams. Greece did it with the Euro's. Pfffft even Rangers did it in their UEFA cup run. And after every match they won, I cringed at my Rangers Fan Friends, and told them they robbed the opposition - because they did. But it was still fair. It was just anti-football. So I'm not going to start with the usual stuff on here: if we do it it's fine; if anyone else does it it's a travesty.

I'm not going go into most of the other of the stuff in your post cos' you were clearly so desperate to make certain points, you asked yourself the question first. And that's the problem with this site - people are so desperate to say what they want to say, they'll misconstrue (consciously or subconsciously) what a post says, so they can make the point they want to make.

The irony is, you're are claiming people are so desperate to defend RD that they will use this result as a means to, and then go on and use it as a means to prosecute him. This board is rife with that sort of (ironic) contradiction. People use Lennon's record to beat up Deila. Someone (probably Bond) points out the RD's record is better. Then people claim that you can't compare the records to defend Deila.

You do it yourself in that very post:

"It does my head in when people continue to point the finger at the past to defend what's happening just now. "

Then.

"We beat Karagandy fair and square to qualify for the cl. I would have bitten anyone's hand off for a last minute goal to beat Malmö or Maribor. "

Again, I'm not defending Deila. I'm attacking the ridiculous -- and completely inconsistent -- nature of the arguments against him.

This internal flipflopping has gone on for a year. I can recall us beating St Mirren last year -- I think it was 3-1 in Paisley, I could be wrong -- and I dared to criticize Craig Gordon's hand in the goal we conceded. This forum went crazy and defended him to the hilt: "how can I say that? ", "hes saved us on countless occasions" etc etc. In fact, the only support I got was from ED and JimTim - who highlighted some similar type mistakes in bigger matches. Fast forward now and everyone has flipped. Craig Gordon is a liability etc. And the thing is, it's the same mistakes. Every big game we lost last year was, in one way or another, down to a Craig Gordon blunder. Infact, you could argue that this year he has been better in that regard, as he has only really cost us against Ajax twice. (in terms of big games)

And now, I dare say something against the now holy result against Barcelona and I've been called "unbelievable", "desperate to defend RD" and best of all "not really a Celtic supporter". Some of you lot need to get a grip. You are becoming more and more like the Southsiders every day.

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10 Dec 2015 15:58:05
Celticforever my point isn't about getting a team of scottish players it was about getting the young players in and developing them that takes time but tbh i would scrap the champions league we aren't wanted look at last 16 i think one team is in for first time its boring same ties every year its getting like the spfl only with bucketfuls of cash.

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09 Dec 2015 15:13:55
Craig Gordon?

Anyone else getting fed up with this seemingly un-droppable clown in goals?

Surely Bailly deserves a start tomorrow to see how he can do instead, Gordon has conceded at least two goals a game in our last 7 European games in a row and bad defence or not that is simply unacceptable, especially when you consider that standard of teams we've faced on top of this. Surely Bailly can't do any worse than he has been lately?

Believable3 Unbelievable2

09 Dec 2015 16:58:58
Your post would indicate we are a good team! When you consider the defeats we have had one would have to agree we have lost to better teams .

Surely that's the reality for Celtic now after years of downsizing .

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09 Dec 2015 17:16:42
For some reason Gordon (like Johansen) seems undroppable - when fit - even when they have been way off form compared to last season.
I don't know how Bailly shows in training, but RD seems very reluctant to play him even with Gordon so shaky.
I never thought Gordon was a long term solution and was hoping we would bring in a decent keeper before now and if Bailly is apparently not good enough, we should bring in a decent replacement in January ( along with a centre half)

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09 Dec 2015 17:18:24
What on earth does your post Kev T have to do with C Gordons poor form? I'm willing to bet Bailly will give a better account of himself than Gordon is atm if he's given the chance.

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09 Dec 2015 18:02:44
IT is impossible to make sweeping statements . In some European games we played well and were unlucky not to win . We have too many posters who can only see bad in team, management and Board, but that's ok they love Celtic .

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09 Dec 2015 18:39:07
Anybody actually take an interest in the development squad?

Leo Fasan single handled kept the game with Chelsea from being double digits!

Two of our last 3/4 GK's where thrust into the team at 19 and 22 why not this lad who IS the star of the development squad

This bhoy could make the very top in the game IMO (ex - GK) (y)

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09 Dec 2015 19:44:17
Clearly replying to the bottom half of your post celticforever.

I have already previously posted that Fasan should be given game time ahead of both. Bailly is a newer Zaluska at best.

Also most of the goals we have conceded are due to the defenders making ridiculous errors that eventually lead to CG doing something daft or being left exposed.

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09 Dec 2015 14:00:33
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Arsenal Off To Oz, Scottish Prem Off To America

Believable0 Unbelievable1

10 Dec 2015 00:17:08
Deila is no clown . He wouldn't have won the top league in two different countries if he doesn't know what he is up to.
To say that he should drop the undropable clown in goal Gordon is nonsense . Deila& his coaches and goalkeeping coach will pick the players who they decide is best for the job . Deila and his coaches jobs depend on that and so only a fool of a fan should post nonsense about a clown undropable.

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