Celtic Banter Archive September 06 2015

06 Sep 2015 23:38:09
This is my last post on the Brown saga for a while as I realise it's starting to bore folk and I want to apologise for this, just get a bit carried away and over passionate at times haha, getting bored of it myself now. Everyone knows my feelings and I know there are others on here(Even if it does seem the minority)who share similar views to myself but are maybe afraid to speak out more as they know it's an unpopular opinion to have and get slammed down for it but that doesn't bother me I'll stick to my guns haha. I'll reserve further judgement on Brown and other players who aren't doing it in a Celtic shirt until after our next two massive games coming up against Aberdeen and Ajax.

To gerryc, last year was a right off from the start mate, I mean Ronny was playing Mulgrew ahead of Bitton in midfield for goodness sake and Stokes ahead of Griffiths, that's how much of a shambles some of his early decisions were. I honestly believe Brown wouldn't have made a difference to last year, just as he hasn't this year. Especially against Legia Warsaw and Ronny said so much himself about a month ago that Brown wouldn't have made the difference against Warsaw but MAYBE Maribor. Point is tactics, formations, fitness and diets, players unsure of the new manager everything like that contributed to the shambles on the park in Europe nothing to do with Browns absence. Deila was also playing Stokes up front instead of Griffiths, that's just asking for trouble if your relying on Stokes to get you goals in Europe, the fact is everything was new for Deila and he was a bit clueless in his early days trying to force the team to play his way in his formation which was completely new to them, but that's not really his fault he was thrust right into the action head first in the deep end and I'm sure he did his very best, I also wouldn't say there was a massive difference in performance either when Brown came back, those EL games were awful to watch at times, the performances only started together when Denayer and Virgil formed the partnership at CB, Bitton replaced the injured Mulgrew in midfield and Guidetti/Griffiths started to play ahead of Stokes up front, those were the major changes in which pushed us on last season for me, not Browns return.

Anyway, point is we're out of the CL qualifying stages again WITH Brown this time, after the manager you look at the captain for me, the players with most responsibility for me and he was found wanting I'm sure most would agree so that imo has to be looked at because something is up.

Oh and another thing I meant to add RyderBrown, you say those players didn't set Europe alight well I can tell you after we defeated Barca that night that sent shock waves around the whole of Europe and possibly even the world of football. Those players did light up Europe that season and especially that night, particularly Wanyama and Forster(As Hooper didn't play that night)who were earning RAVE reviews and lot's of folk were so impressed by both their performances against Barca, I mean for Petes' sake the Spanish did a full spread in their papers labelling big Forster 'La Gran Muralla'(The Great Wall)and were hugely impressed and admirable of his performances.

To add to this the best player in the WORLD and some argue the best player EVER Lionel Messi then went on to comment about the big man by saying : "The performances of Fraser Forster against us were talked about for a long time. "There was one game in Scotland where he was not human, it is the best goalkeeping performance I have seen.""When Victor Valdes said he was leaving we even talked about him playing here. I was sure he would end up at Arsenal, Chelsea or Manchester United."
I'd say that's not too bad an accolade to be had from the biggest profile player out there in the world.

So there you have it, if that is setting Europe alight then I'm not sure what is to be honest.

Anyway as I've said, again apologies for boring everyone these last few days on here about Brown and I will reign it in now, just want what's best for my club and I just call it as I see it.

Hail Hail.

06 Sep 2015 23:47:13
Mate your credibility just went out the window. You said RD created a shambles by picking Stokes,Mulgrew etc and forcing the new formation diets tactics etc. Then go on to say it wasn't his fault lol. Which is it?
Some people just don't get it, no matter what happens the manager and the manager only is responsible for results.

07 Sep 2015 00:35:40
Haha Ok let me clear this up, his decisions were a shambles last year is what I'm saying by playing Stokes ahead of Griffiths up front, Mulgrew ahead of Bitton in midfield and Ambrose ahead of Denayer at CB. Those were 3 shocking decisions right there in hindsight for Ronny and I'm sure if those 3 players were playing for us instead(Griffiths, Bitton and Denayer)in place of those 3 then we would have beaten Maribor over the two legs and qualified as they were a pretty poor team imo, a lot poorer than Malmo anyway for me.

But what I'm saying is it wasn't his fault as he didn't intentionally do this to harm the team, how was he to know after only just arriving what players he could really trust and who he couldn't? It's obvious that he didn't so what he must of done was look back to the previous year against Karagandy and seen that Mulgrew, Stokes and Ambrose all played that night, this obviously swayed his decision as he felt these players had been there and done it and could be trusted to brush aside Maribor which obviously turned out to be 3 massive errors and a mistake.

So whilst his decisions were a shambles in the cold light of day, I'm saying that he still couldn't really be blamed for that as he had only just arrived and didn't know his squad that well.

Hope that's cleared that up for you rayman.

07 Sep 2015 00:38:18
Celticforever lay aff the opal fruits son

07 Sep 2015 10:00:54
Think he's moved on to the cocktails DN lol. midget gems.

07 Sep 2015 15:53:17
Celticforever I'm sure somewhere in your posts there are valid points but your posts are to long. I lost the will to live trying to read the last ones. You ever thought of writing a book?

07 Sep 2015 18:23:49
Last season our league form was poor at the start, when Brown came back there was a dramatic improvement, and it's the same this season, when Brown gets taken off our performance drops badly.
I don't think it's coincidence, it is happening too often.
The performances don't seem to drop away the same if Biton, Johansson, Rogic, etc get taken off, which suggests to me that although these 3 may or may not be better footballers than Brown, none of them can influence other players the way Brown can.
It's a shame that these other players need to have someone alongside them to gee them up, but that's the way it is.

06 Sep 2015 19:09:45
That donkey berget another 2 goals tonight against Croatia 😡

06 Sep 2015 20:12:41
I think we need to stop going on about him as if he's a terrible player. He came at a time when the system wasn't working and the players were extremely low on confidence. He was the scapegoat at the time but better players than him have come here and had a bad time of it. If anything, I think rd probably missed a trick in not keeping him on.

06 Sep 2015 21:00:57
Berget 4games 2goals and not even a striker, that ronny deila really knows a player when he sees one doesn't he

06 Sep 2015 21:46:54
Ronny signed him as loan, he didn't fit in and our supporters weren't slow to tell him .

06 Sep 2015 23:04:16
RyderBrown he does actually #Odegaard

06 Sep 2015 23:10:53
Ronny signed him on loan,Ronny threw him right into the team,without any preparation in an important euro game,it was another example of Ronny picking the wrong players ,picking the wrong team and playing the wrong tactics,he made a reasonable player look like he was rubbish,suppose Scepovisc (spelling) will now prosper playing under a manager who plays in his proper position

07 Sep 2015 00:10:23
Dn30 yeah I know about odegaard, I don't believe odegaard was just down to ronny though, heard his no2 at the time had a big say. did we get the wrong guy?

07 Sep 2015 00:15:04
Dn30 name another

07 Sep 2015 05:47:25
Iver Fossum

07 Sep 2015 10:17:59
Iver fossum yeah that boys been left at stromsgodset, if he was that good why hasn't ronny went in for him? Iver fossum may be the next odegaard at 19 3 years odegaards senior. can you name another dn30?

07 Sep 2015 10:19:52
For every good player ronnys been involved with I can name 5 duds

07 Sep 2015 16:48:52
Think some of you need to make up your minds. It was Deila's fault signing him and its Deila's fault not keeping him now that he play's well. Well who is it? I can also name a lot of other managers who has bought duds, no one gets the right player every time. Chelsea, Manutd, City etc etc have all bought players that don't make it, but does it make Mourinho, SAF, Van Gaal etc bad managers?

I can understand the negatives towards Deila atm, but hopefully he will get the time to sort it out. I was a bit surprised how fast Celtic has moved forward, but moving forward also makes you go back a few steps now and then.

but again, I understand ehy the negatives.

07 Sep 2015 17:50:40
RyderBrown Fossum not a good enough example for you? Well how about Stefan Johansen then? Surely if he plays him each week, he must rate him?

Your starting to embarrass yourself wee man

07 Sep 2015 17:55:56
My minds made up mate, he's out of his depth. Thing is the man u's chelsea's city's etc can afford to sign the odd dud. Youve een surprised by how far celtic has moved forward are you kidding? How long you been watching celtic mate

07 Sep 2015 18:35:10
Norwegianred Thanks for posting a sensible post . You will have noticed that the vast majority of posters on here all have extreme views . They are always either super negative or super positive , few seem to be able to take a moderate view .

07 Sep 2015 19:47:31
Dn30 "wee man, i'm anything but pal. Ha your posts are but a joke

07 Sep 2015 20:58:17
RyderBrown settle petal. Its only friendly banter wee man

07 Sep 2015 21:05:39
Ryder, sorry that came out a bit wrong. i'm not talking about Celtic in general, but how Celtic has progressed since Deila started and yes I know about Celtic's massive history but havnt followed the club like I do now, for very long. i'm also not that good in expressing myself in english, so something could be lost in translation.

Maybe Deila is out of his depts, but I hope he gets the time to prove you wrong cause I know he will.

07 Sep 2015 21:19:37
And I was using City and Chelsea and so on as examples, cause I thought tou dindt know the big names such as Odd, Bodø glimt etc, but every club no matter how small or massive they all buy duds at some point. The norwegian league was full of them, foreign players that didn't do anything else than take up space and drain the clubs for money.
Deila had a few duds in Strømsgodset to, and he bought a few players that seemed quite strange at the time, but was bought for a reason.
I would give it a season or two more before giving the final blow, a lot cause it takes a bit of time to wake up that massive sleeping gigant, that Celtic is in fact.

08 Sep 2015 00:21:41
Alright dn30 I get you it is only banter, even weir man

08 Sep 2015 00:24:49
Understand nr, just a bit pissed regarding cl,signings and stubborn tactics

08 Sep 2015 00:27:38
Although me personally my mind is still made up and I for one won't be hanging about at 90 mins for his gimmick air punch

08 Sep 2015 07:30:10
Btw I would like to see that list of five duds on every good player though.

08 Sep 2015 14:22:50
Give me a list of his good signings first, btw me personally I don't rate stefan johansen either(lennon celtic signing) he's hot and cold mostly cold, like most norwegian players

08 Sep 2015 17:11:10
Ok, Marcus Pedersen, Iver Fossum, Gustav Wikheim, Lars Vilsvik, Jo Inge Berget, Stefan Johansen, Mohammed Abu to name a few of the players Deila brought in over the years. You see the same thing in Celtic, buying young scottish players to build for the future, get a steady foundation and building slowly. The major of the signings is young scottish players with potential, and that proves to me that he builds in the same way.
You clearly don't rate norwegian players at all, and it seems that you don't rate scottish aswell?
If you see it in a perspective of five-ten years ahead instead of just the next few weeks, you will have a much brighter future than you would have, buying the finished artickle.
Maybe Michu, Fletcher etc would seal the CL spot but could also turn out as very expencive duds? And it could also be that Deila dosnt even pick the players himself, but with the board they desides together who is resonable or not?

Maybe GMS, Armstrong, Christie etc don't seem as good signings right now, but they will kick back and hard when they do!

10 Sep 2015 20:00:18
Well said Norwegianred a view back up with cold facts. I agree with all the players you mentioned above and although I can see where some posters are coming from some have gone from being quite content to being absolutly furious in a matter of games

11 Sep 2015 23:30:18
No worries Tompo88. I am of course seing this in a whole different way, kinda like an outsider and I hope I don't piss anybody off.
No secret I have a sweetspot for Deila, much cause of what he's contributed to norwegian football and also cause of my team back home, Strømsgodset.
It looks like he is doing the same at Celtic, building brick by brick on a foundation on domestic players.

{Ed007's Note - You and your opinions & views are always welcome on here, it's good to get a different perspective and from someone who has more knowledge and experience of RD and his methods than we have.
Aren't you still in Norway?}

06 Sep 2015 13:22:09
Here are some stats for those that say Brown cannot pass a ball.

In Europe this season, Scott Brown has passed the ball successfully more times than any other Celtic player (275 passes completed). He has a pass completion of 79% which is high for a CM (not the best Bitton has 87%). On top of that his average pass distance is 18m, which shows he has a wide range of passing.

So if you are going to slate Brown and base your argument on his inability to pass the ball then you should really get your facts right.

Stats taken from a website

06 Sep 2015 14:08:48
Celtic forums have always been a breeding ground for people to start a campaign against our own players . Ambrose Mulgrew Izzy Commons and now our captain Scot Brown , and then we wonder why our mainstream Scottish media criticise us and our players so much .
Ok Scot may not be playing to his very high standards just now. , but he is one hell of a lot better than centre midfielders playing in Scotland or legible to play for Celtic .n

06 Sep 2015 14:15:55
Exactly bud. He's playing that continuation role now which would reflect him making the most passes. Some people eh.

06 Sep 2015 14:42:49
Stats can be deceiving and I'd much rather base my opinion on what I see and I don't see Scott brown as one of our best performers in Europe this season so far. I still believe Scott brown has something to offer celtic but not at his current level regardless of how his stats look. If you actually go to games you cannot deny his play THIS season has been below par but if you only look at stats you'll think he's going for player of year.

06 Sep 2015 14:54:15
A lot or most of Bittons' passes are forward and penetrating passes trying to create and make things happen, for him to have an even higher success rate than Brown speaks volumes as the vast majority of Scott Browns passes are mostly backwards or if he feels adventurous the sideways pass will happen. Whenever he attempts the forward pass to try and create something he inevitably gives away possession either gifting it to an opposition players feet or passing the ball out the park for a throw in to the opposition and wasting possession. Or another infuriating pass he tries where he tries a high forward pass which finds no one and goes out for a goal kick to the opposition. Watch him closely and you'll see this, I'm not just saying this for the sake of it.

The stats show nothing except the negative football Scott Brown plays which goes against the managers style of play, he wants to see his players constantly try and make things happen with a high success rate like Bitton attacking the opposition, instead of slowing the game and attack down by passing the ball backwards and sideways so many times. Retaining possession is something that Bitton and from what I've seen Rogic have in abundance over Brown, so far ahead of Brown technically on the ball and they can also do the dirty work that's needed to, they've proved this in the games they've played.

I know what I see when I watch him play for us and I maintain Scott Browns passing ability in my eyes and for those who have him found out amongst the support when he steps up at European or International level know that his passing is awful, I'm sorry but that's just my view and a few others. Even domestically his passing isn't the best either which is the scary part.

Scott Brown as a footballer is extremely poor this is just my opinion.

He doesn't score goals, he doesn't split defences with passes, he rarely breaks up play legally, his tackling is atrocious at times giving away needless fouls in dangerous areas, his positioning is questionable also as was seen for Scotland just there at the goal conceded and he makes quite a few individual high profile errors which have led to us conceding goals(the one against Malmo at Celtic Park for example with his header), his passing is also poor, his off the ball sly digs at players and constant personal spats are infuriating(Both in Europe and domestically), he gets away with a lot of this lack of ability in Scotland(To an extent)domestically against lesser opposition but in Europe and at international level he doesn't and this is where he gets found out for me.

His main quality is that he has energy and he uses it to harass and annoy(this is because he lacks in football skills like a Bitton for instance so has to try and make up for it in other ways), against Motherwell and Killie that's enough, at European and international level it's well short.

We need better imo and this is why our passing and not being able to retain the ball as well in Europe is happening, the problem is staring right at us literally and a lot of fans don't want to admit the harsh reality that Brown is one of our biggest problems in retaining and passing the ball well in Europe.

I'd quite like to see Rogic and Bitton together in front of the back four to see how they work together.

06 Sep 2015 15:07:07
Celticfornever your getting boring now, we all get you don't like brown. Your in the minority end of. Btw time you got over wanyama he's history. brown wants to play for celtic guys like wanyama,van dijk,forster etc didnt

06 Sep 2015 15:09:24
Celticforneverr your now pining for kayal? Do you believe kayal is a better player than brown?

06 Sep 2015 15:43:44
All this brown talk scunners me

06 Sep 2015 16:15:29
Ryder mate Van Dijk, Wanyama and Forster had to be wanted first before making the move to England in the EPL, the reason guys like Brown, Mulgrew, Stokes or even Commons and Forrest also for instance still find themselves at Celtic is for the same reason and that is because no one in the EPL is interested and there's a reason for that, just like there's a reason why players like Bitton are being watched with interest and teams are supposedly ready to make a move soon in the coming transfer windows.

It's certainly not for their love of Celtic that they're still here, they're on wages they'd be very hard pressed to get elsewhere and they find themselves in a comfort zone in our league which doesn't expose they're lack of ability, as we see when these same players step up a level in Europe and become exposed for us. If a team from the EPL offered Brown/Commons/Mulgrew/Stokes a 4 year contract tomorrow on £60K a week they'd be off but 1. No team at that level would be interested and 2. They'd probably fear playing at that level as they know their lack of ability would get them found out down there, just like it does in Europe for us and at international level. We are an amazing club to be a part of that's for sure but if you're a really decent player who has impressed and showed that on the European stage with us then as has been shown with Wanyama/Virgil/Forster/Hooper they won't be here very long and rarely over two years. As money talks in the end as well as the standard of league on offer to them.

I don't really care if I'm in the minority although I feel the penny is beginning to drop with a lot of our support personally, but the majority are certainly not always right.

Btw yes I do think Kayal is a better player than Brown and Kayal proved that in his first season when he was here, he tailed off a bit due to injury but for me he's always been a better midfielder than Brown, also Kayal is earning rave reviews currently at Brighton who play in a much more competitive and tougher league than our own and a lot of their fans can't quite believe they've got a player like Kayal and they are all saying he's EPL bound next season if he keeps up his form this season, they even call him King Kayal and he's a fans favourite.

06 Sep 2015 16:34:07
Another big boring post celticfornever, what has wanyama,van dijk,forster or hooper done in europe? And your take on kayal, wtf proved in 1st(one season) he had it, what about the rest? Brown has been consistantly our best player for the last several years. You put him in the same category as mulgrew,stokes and commons players I don't really rate but browns head n shoulders above them

06 Sep 2015 16:36:25
Why are people still talking about Brown? We should really just ignore Celtic forever as he has something personal it seems against Brown. I've said before that Brown annoys me at times, but the nonsense being written by Celticforever just suggest he hates Brown and is a bit clueless. I'm looking forward to his bring back beram campaign though. I liked kayal but he pretty much admitted he left because Lee McCulloch scared him.

Give it a rest!

06 Sep 2015 18:18:58
In all honesty , I think if a certain poster changed his name to celticfornever , the post might make more sense .

06 Sep 2015 18:19:10
Look Scott Brown is almost always amongst our best performers in any given game, really there is no debate here. As for not passing the ball forward I attend all the games and he is always trying to pass froward to the wide player and more importantly he is there to take it from them and recirculate the ball when necessary, perhaps the anti brown faction are down at the pie stall when he is doing this if they are even at the game. I have never read so much self opinionated twaddle in my life

06 Sep 2015 19:15:38
RyderBrown did you really just say 'what has Wanyama, Forster or Hooper done in Europe'?

They made massive contributions to us in Europe whilst they were here ffs, it's the reason they got they're moves away and we raked in so much money because teams outside of Scotland don't rate what they do with us domestically and rather judge them with what they do for us in Europe.

Dear oh dear mate.

06 Sep 2015 20:42:01
Celticfornever, listen this is the last time I read one of your crapy posts,,so you believe wanyama,forster and hooer set europe alight, how many games did they play? Wanyama was at the club barely 2 seasons then couldn't wait to get away. i'm with nt87 on this. I will also be ignoring you christopher,,

06 Sep 2015 21:18:12
I think when you look at the facts, they speak for themselves.
Last season whilst Brown was out injured, we were a shambles, when he returned to the team, it was like signing a player, such was the difference in performance and results of the team. It's the same this season, whenever Brown
Gets taken off, the performance falls away.
Sometimes you have to judge a player on the influence he brings to the team, and the confidence he brings to others, rather than judge him on every time a pass goes astray.
Brown may not be the most gifted player, but I don't think there's another player in the team that can influence things the way Brown does.

06 Sep 2015 21:24:46
Where did I say they set Europe alight? They were certainly the main contributors as to why we qualified for the last 16 under Lenny. They were great in Europe for us, particularly Forster and Wanyama. Or do you have a short memory?

It's not about how many games they played in Europe it's about the impact they had while they played here at that level for us, and the three of them certainly did more for us in Europe and had a bigger impact in their short time here at that level than Brown has done in his entire career at Celtic in Europe, that is undeniable.

From what I also remember Brown was not part of our win over Barcelona, how strange, we all know the impact he had the next year we played Barca again or with your seemingly short memory you may not.

06 Sep 2015 12:13:15
I think Scotland yesterday against Georgia put in the same level of performance as Celtic did against Malmo the previous week in both games Celtic and Scottish played in a lethargic fashion . Not one player lifted themselves above mediocrity . The opponents seemed to have more hunger , drive and better prepared .
The displays by Scotland and Celtic was not typical of how either team has played under their current managers . Both WGS and Deila will expect to have much better displays against Germany and Ajax in their next European matches .

06 Sep 2015 13:25:37
Was mulgrew playing in any of they games? Not a surprise they got beat Fletcher? can't get a game for Sunderland brown think he's still injured naismith played about 30 mins all.season Hutton well u saw him trip himself up and fall in his orange face morrison was awful anya was a headless chicken only few who played ok was young robertson and Marshall

06 Sep 2015 14:22:01
Mulgrew played the 90 mins for Scotland . I thought he was Scotland's best back four players . He certainly put more , and better quality of crosses into the box in the short time he was at left back than the often praised Robertson .
Poor Hutten is a bit of a laughing stock , I noticed most of the players wouldn't pass the ball to him . Maybe poor WGS hands are tied , maybe he cannot besmirch the name of the dead club , and has to play a token zombie .
Greenandwhiteknight , I wouldn't have the same in depth knowledge of all the players qualified to play for Scotland , as you undoubtedly have , but I think if WGS had made whole scale changes from the teams that had put Scotland into 3rd position ,I think he would have suffered massive criticism .

06 Sep 2015 15:47:04
Chris02 aka oldbhoy my knowledge of football is far greater than yours its common knowledge on this site your talk a lot of baws 100% of your posts are pointless

06 Sep 2015 16:37:46
Chris2 old bhoy?

06 Sep 2015 17:03:48
Yeah ryder he is chris02 now changed name to oldbhoy to disguise himself lol

06 Sep 2015 18:21:27
Greenandwhiteknight. I have no doubt in your mind u know more about football than I do. However self praise is no praise.

06 Sep 2015 18:26:12
The words of Voltaire spring to mind here:

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."

So on that note think what you will of Brown, as I won't be wasting any more of my time discussing this issue.

06 Sep 2015 18:45:59
Rab mate a lot of people giving him stick he's a good player and he's been a good servent aswell but right now he's not playing to well and rightly gets critised but tbh a think he's still injured

06 Sep 2015 20:44:27
Hey oldbhoy something to hide? didn't anyone like chris02?