Celtic Banter Archive February 06 2014

06 Feb 2014 23:17:43
Was just having a look at some videos from the last year or 2 and can't believe the team we had for the one we have now, albeit they had they had there own reasons etc I would still love it if hooper and ledley were here, we, ve missed hoops big style this season and just lost our best midfielder recently.
Just wondering if we can bring players in to match the success we had of 2012-13
in lennon we trust!

06 Feb 2014 22:41:26
Yet another snidey press conference from Sneaky playing to the knuckledraggers with his comments about the cup final and " who really runs the SFA " . Isn't it time he was brought to heel by the SFA concerning his comments or is he really that untouchable . His comments about what happend to NL were laughable as well considering his whispering antics at Parkhead contributed to winding up NL and showing him in a bad light . A really sad sneak of being . DH

06 Feb 2014 20:38:56
Mrs E I agree absolutely.
In addition we tend to forget this was Neil's first job, no long apprenticeship, just right in at the deep end. A huge job at a huge club. He is still learning, look how long D Moyes has been in the game. Our manager is more likely to be driven from Scotland by bigots than by failure.
BTW I still cringe and squirm when I recollect the treatment we gave to Fergus that day. If it were not for The Bunnett, and I call him that with affection, we would not be having this discussion.

Exactly Celticflame! No one is saying we all adore the Board or want to kiss Peter Lawwell's feet but for us old enough to remember the last 20 yrs, we've been here before.

Most will admit the treatment of Fergus was a major embarrassment, I'm just worried we're about to do that again. We're hardly a Club in crisis.

@celticflame the celtic managers job is not a position where an apprenticeship is served! Who cares about moyes! He never started off at a club as big as celtic! He started off at preston and learned his ropes at a considerably smaller club

06 Feb 2014 12:31:26
Sometimes I hate Social Media, you can't just seem to support your team.

You will forgive some of us for being about cynical about the Celtic bashing but its an opinion we are quite entitled to have. For the past 20 years I've seen Fergus McCann booed, Gordon Strachan practically run out, Martin O'Neill's cheque book management vilified etc so this current bashing is nothing new to me or most of us.

You have no idea how delighted I am Social Media was not about in 1994. This new way of insulting ordinary fans who are not out and out Celtic bashers - you must be at the match eating a piece of bread with seafood on it and wetting yourself, this is coming from fellow Celtic fans. Nice

I've absolutely no issue with fans questioning every decision at Celtic or wanting a say in team selection and having an opinion on it but if you are going to put your views on an open banter site then other fans will question your opinion and give their views, why is this seen as a problem and why does it warrant grown adults using insults?

Football is horribly ruled by money and if we played in a bigger league with the fanbase we have, I hate to think of the owners we would attract. Dermot Desmond might not be everyone's cuppa tea but I can think of a lot worse and not many who would be better.

Neil Lennon - was the cheap option for the Board and the Scottish Cup game on Saturday is a must win.

As usual.well said!

Neil lennon should never have got managers job. The board was dicing with death and could of possibly instigated a repeat scenario of john barnes- no experience, shocking performance.

Lennon knew himself he wasn't ready, evident by asking for a mentor stuart baxter.

He is in a league where he is unchallenged and simply has not been tested.

Last 16 in Europe, imo was down to solid performances from a stronger team with wanyama playing some amazing football.

This year in europe was an embarrassment and should never of been that bad.

Mrs E bang on.

I'd even take it a little further. In my opinion Peter Lawwell has been excellent for our club. You can argue all you want about penny pinching etc but he has always kept us on a safe financial footing.

I see people banging on about why we haven't signed this £6m player. A £6m player in our environment would have to be 100% the right person. There is absolutely no scope there for not being quite right or needing time to settle in. Also who's to say we haven't been enquiring about these players but again due to our environment was rebuffed?

I think we need to accept the stage we live on and support the team like we sing about.

Toffee where do you get the notion that anyone speaking against something at the club isn't supporting the team? Do you say the same about Everton's Blue Union, Arsenal, Leeds United or Manchester United Supporter's Trusts who all campaign for changes at their respective clubs. Are you also against the Crystal Palace fans demonstrating against the ticket prices in the English Premier League or the Liverpool fans who campaigned to get rid of their last owners?

We all laugh at the Sevco fans not saving their club, weren't they doing exactly what you want us to do and just accept things and support the team? May I also ask what your opinion on the Celts For Change group who over 20 years ago refused to just accept things?

Che, the difference then was that the clubs existence was at stake, taking to the edge by a board who had no clue, now we are in a healthy situation it seems you only want a fight with the board as they don't conform to your political beliefs?

There is nothing I have said that could possibly be construed as political but I'm a member of the Labour Party and a member of UNISON if you must know. So can we get back to talking about Celtic or did you prefer when the forum was all about the politics of the Sevco saga?

There was a reason I wrote I was delighted Social media was not about 20 yrs ago and one of the reasons Celts For Change was a success! The Club was at the biggest crisis point any Club can ever be at in 1993/4 - where is the comparison today?

Toffeebhoy, totally agree that the environment (or league) we play in dictates how the finances are spent. We are financially healthy this season but we've all seen how quickly that turns.

Scottish football is a riot just now!

DN30 - I thought the success Neil Lennon had in Europe last season was well deserved and it was fantastic. Obviously this season he was shown up and a few players let him down. Wanyama was sorely missed.

He had to the take the job when it was offered, who wouldn't and his first season that bluddy Inverness CT game changed where the league title went, still rages me to this day!

Seen this yesterday on FB about English Clubs but Liverpool, Newcastle, Leeds have good attendances and I don't mind this either as they are discussing things like the German 50 +1 rule. :-

IF there’s one thing guaranteed to annoy football fans, it’s rubbish. And there’s a lot of it around.

As the powers-that-be – the football authorities and the Government – have saw fit to idly stand by and let any old tycoon get their mitts on our beloved clubs, many loyal supporters have been forced to endure it more and more.

Pic: Propaganda
By now you know the script all too well. Wealthy man arrives. Wealthy man makes promises. Wealthy man wears scarf and/or replica shirt. Wealthy man says he understands the fans and respects the traditions of the club.

Wealthy man royally takes the piss as his ego takes over, the pound signs light up in his eyes, it all goes tits up and he leaves fans crying in their beer. We had it with Hicks and Gillett.

Portsmouth, Leeds United, Blackburn Rovers…they, among others, know the score, too.

After their weekend home humiliation to Sunderland, it was Newcastle United fans that were again shaking their fists in the direction of the boardroom.

Manager Alan Pardew was embarrassingly pushed into the firing line to deflect the bullets from Director of Football Joe Kinnear, who has since resigned, and owner Mike Ashley as he was asked a string of searching questions – why had the club not signed a player on a permanent deal in two transfer windows? Why hadn’t they replaced Yohan Cabaye?

Eventually, he simply walked away. He had no answers. Since Ashley took over at St James’ Park, Newcastle have failed to muster a decent cup run, have finished no higher than fifth in the Premier League, have been relegated and have consistently sold many of their best players.

Most fans think Ashley and Co are more than happy for Newcastle to survive in the top flight, make a profit and post a healthy set of accounts.

The situation prompted one wag to list Mike Ashley for sale on eBay following the 3-0 thumping from Sunderland but there’s a serious point to be made.

What’s the point in a football club without ambition? What’s the point in a football club that seemingly doesn’t care about its supporters? And what’s the point in a football club that puts profit before performance?

The bottom line is, a football club shouldn’t be run like a business. It shouldn’t be a billionaire’s plaything. Instead, it should be respected for what it is – a much-loved sporting institution, a vital part of Britain’s culture, a key component of thousands of people’s identity.
Yet – despite more and more owners taking the piss (see Leeds, see Cardiff City, see Hull City) there’s a collective shrug from those that could make a difference.

Rules could be put in place to protect our clubs from the mad and the money-obsessed: Germany already has a model in place that works well.
There – thanks to the 50+1 rule – the club’s members (supporters) always have the final say. So if an investor swoops hoping to change the name of the ground, introduce a new club name or give the team a new kit, he will have to convince the fans it’s what is right and proper as there’s only ever 49 per cent of the club up for grabs.

Here, we protect our buildings, we protect our trees, we protect our beaches, our wildlife and our greenbelt. Yet we don’t protect our football. And while that remains the case, the smell of rubbish will never be far away from the clubs we cherish.

The word *rubbish actually says something else but must have been filtered out!

{Ed007's Note - The auto-filter changes sweary words.}

06 Feb 2014 08:41:21
Celtic Trust Report from Open Meeting 22/1/14:

The meeting, open to all Celtic supporters, was convened by the Celtic Trust and in the absence of the Trust Chairperson who is abroad, it was jointly chaired by Jeanette Findlay, immediate past Chairperson, and Tommy Brannigan Vice-Chairperson of the Trust. An estimated 250 Celtic fans attended the meeting including those who are members of one of the supporters' organisations and those who do not.

Jeanette opened by welcoming all present and setting out the parameters for the conduct of the meeting ie that some issues had already been suggested but participants would be given the opportunity to raise any further relevant issues

Everyone who wished to do so would be given the opportunity to speak but this would be done in an orderly manner and through the chair.

•All contributions would be heard and respected

•The meeting agreed to a Twitter feed going out

•After full discussion any further proposed action would be put to the meeting for decision.
The following issues were suggested for inclusion on the agenda

•Stewarding and policing

•The closure of Section 111

•Club silence on crucial issues such as the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act

•Living Wage issue

•Dam Justice

•Proper checks for stewards ie PVG or Enhanced Disclosure

•European Ticket allocation

•The Celtic Board's position on the SFA.

•Present Board and custodians of the Club not being representative of the Support

•Closure of the Bus Park.

•Catering
It was accepted that it would not be possible to cover all issues at this meeting and that some of the issues raised although important would be better dealt with through the existing supporters' organisations' links to the appropriate responsible personnel within Celtic.

The tone of the meeting was immediately set by Eddie Toner who had brought to the meeting the Fair Play Trophy awarded to the Celtic Support by FIFA in 2003. Eddie recalled how, as the then General Secretary of the Celtic Supporters' Association, he had received this award at FIFA World Player Awards in Switzerland on behalf of Celtic supporters in recognition of the magnificent way they had supported the team all the way to Seville where over 80,000 people had congregated for the final match and had behaved impeccably throughout. Eddie reminded those present that ten years later nothing has changed. We are still the same support welcomed and praised throughout Europe. It is only in this country that things are different and that reflects the bias in Scotland and within Scottish society.

What follows is an attempt to summarise a number of contributions to give a flavour of the meeting and is not meant to be a verbatim account.


Stewarding and Policing:

The first issue to be raised concerned the recent actions of stewards and police. The following points were made by a number of speakers:

•Police harassment and intimidation has intensified over the past year.

•Celtic as a Club is complicit in cooperating with the criminalising of Celtic supporters and has endorsed this process. The claim that heavy-handed policing was at the request/knowledge of Celtic has been made on several occasions by Kenny McAskill MSP to a constituent present at the meeting and can be confirmed by others.

•The management of stewards was called into question. It was felt that the heavy handed approach from individual stewards was ordered by the Head of Security and his staff.

•It is noticeable that there is a marked difference in the number of police and stewards in the Main Stand as opposed to the other stands in the ground. Why is this the case?

• Hypocrisy of Celtic's stance on 'political' emblems and expressions. Supporters are being prevented from wearing scarves with the Green Brigade logo and from taking Irish national flags into the ground. One speaker reported being stopped from entering wearing a scarf commemorating Nelson Mandela while the Club endorsed a tribute to Mandela.

•Searches of particularly young supporters by unauthorised personnel. How many stewards do not have PVGs or Disclosures?

Offensive Behaviour at Football (OB) Act:

It was felt that much of the above stems directly from this Act. Through this legislation individual police officers now feel able to harass and even arrest supporters for a range of activities which would be perfectly acceptable in any context other than a football match. As previously mentioned stewards are also being used to implement this piece of unjust and discriminatory legislation.

Although Celtic have said privately to representatives of supporter organisations that they have and do oppose the Act they have not stated this position publically despite being urged to do so on many occasions. When an early review of the Act was recently before the Justice Committee at Holyrood the Club were asked to make a statement, or to contact the Justice Committee, supporting this but they declined to do soThe Supporter Liaison Officer also told a group of supporters that the Club intended issuing a statement at this time. This has not been forthcoming strengthening the widespread belief that far from opposing the Club is actually collaborating with the police and authorities in implementing the Act and so criminalising its own support. The Chair indicated that at a meeting between the Trust and officials from Celtic, theCEO and the then Company Secretary statedthat the Club were not aware that legislation was being planned until late summer 2011 but minutes of deliberations at Holyrood reveal that not only did Celtic officials know about the plans by at least early June, they were actively involved in supporting them.

One speaker also highlighted how quick Peter Lawwell was to condemn Celtic fans often without any basis in fact. Is this to curry favour with a press and media who are never going to be on Celtic's side whatever happens?

Another speaker made reference to the enormous power now wielded by the Chief Constable of Police Scotland Stephen House. It would appear that the Scottish Government has abrogated its responsibility and allowed this man free rein to do as he pleases.

All of this needs to be challenged.

Match at Motherwell on 6th December 2013:

The aftermath of this event has been widely reported in the press and media and several speakers regretted the fact that some Celtic supporters are still willing to believe everything they read in the tabloid press which is noted for their anti-Celtic slant. Several speakers spoke about their experiences at that match. Fans were denied access to the areas for which they had tickets and were herded into other areas of the stands. Aggressive behaviour from police and stewards and heavy presence of both was evident before and after the game but when flares were thrown and seats broken there were no police or stewards present. It is generally accepted that seats are damaged at many grounds but that the practice has been for Clubs not to publicise this but sort it out internally and between themselves as Celtic and Aberdeen had done after many seats at the section housing Aberdeen supporters had been damaged on 23rd November. One speaker said that Motherwell FC expected this to happen in this case but that Celtic had insisted on going public. It was felt that this was one more example of Celtic targeting our own support and that they had a definite motive for doing so ie the closure of Section 111 and the demonising of the Green Brigade.

After the match Celtic suspended the Season Books of 128 supporters including some members of the Green Brigade who were widely blamed for the trouble. However the letters giving notice of suspension could only cite the fact that the recipient had not been seated on the seat noted on the ticket held. That these supporters were suspended was widely reported on the Celtic website and in the press but when the suspensions were quickly rescinded no such reports appeared. It was decided to compile a report of incidents which people experienced or saw on that night with as much detail as possible along the lines of the reports drawn up after the kettlling by police in the Gallowgate in March and the more recent incidents in Amsterdam. Anyone who has any relevant information on this is urged to contact Alan Cochrane at alan.cochrane2@ntlword.com

Political Banners and the closure of Section:

The banners which had been shown at the both the games on 23rd November and that vs AC Milan on 26th November came about because a section of the Celtic support were being harassed, and arrested from their homes, sometimes in the early morning, for nothing more than singing a song.

As these actions were obviously politically motivated and given that Celtic had not denounced them as promised, the Green Brigade felt that they were justified in using these banners to draw attention to the intimidation being experienced by Celtic fans.

The speed with which Celtic accepted the UEFA ruling and fine and moved to close Section 111 troubled many fans. They felt that Celtic had ample grounds to highlight UEFA's inconsistent and hypocritical response to similar situations in other countries. It was also doubly ironic that while fining Celtic because our fans displayed a banner portraying two freedom fighters UEFA issued a decree that Nelson Mandela also a freedom fighter had to be honoured at all European matches that same week.

Those seated in Section 111 received letters saying that the section was being closed and offering either relocation or a refund of the unexpired portion of their season tickets. Supporters seeking an explanation are still awaiting replies.

The statement issued by the Club on 9th December is very misleading and has never been corrected. Police Scotland have now arrested a number of young persons all from the same area in Lanarkshire but this is apparently in connection with disorder after the game at Fir Park. While it is unclear if these young people are actually Celtic fans what is certain is that no member of the Green Brigade has been arrested regarding this yet the Club have punished this group for the sins of others.

As the time was wearing on brief reports were given on some topics (Amsterdam, Living Wage, FAC) while it was decided to remit others to the next meeting so that there would be time to discuss strategies for the future action

Discussion of Action points:

There was considerable support for a boycott of both away and home games and much discussion around this. Those in favour felt that the only way to highlight the harassment and intimidation of supporters using the OBF/Act was to hit Clubs where it hurt ie in the pocket. Since many Clubs now rely solely on the two matches against Celtic for a large part of their income it was felt that losing this would encourage their officials to lobby the Government for a review of this legislation. It was also felt that regrettably this was the only language the Board of Celtic plc also know. Some speakers drew attention to what was termed the existing unofficial boycott evidenced by the many empty seats at Celtic Park not only in the section of the upper Lisbon Lions stand but also those who are just not using season tickets and are unlikely to renew them for next year. It was felt that there was a window of opportunity between now and the season ticket renewal date to make our points.

The possibility of holding one or more demonstrations outside Celtic Park was also discussed and found favour with many.

Others at the meeting felt that while they would support such boycotts in the long term there were steps which could be taken prior to this action and which would give the Club time to respond to and hopefully address the expressed concerns of supporters. After full discussion the following was agreed:

•Peter Lawwell as CEO of Celtic would be asked to respond to a number of questions on the points raised during the meeting. He will be asked to respond in writing. These questions would be posed in writing but the officers of the supporters groups were also authorised to meet with Celtic officials if this was considered to be useful.

•A leaflet listing the concerns to be distributed to the wider support was suggested and is being considered.As previously mentioned a full report of the events at Fir Park Motherwell will be compiled.

•It was also felt that we had allowed the press and media to dictate the agenda on matters concerning Celtic and that of course this was always going to be detrimental to our Club. It is time we started fighting back and this report could begin that process.

•A further meeting would be held in two weeks' time on Wednesday 5th February the business of which will be to receive the responses from Peter Lawwell and in the light of those to decide on any further action.

Questions:

•What is Celtic's stance on the Offensive Behaviour at Football/Threatening Communication Act and when will they publically declare this?

•Why has the Club been silent since the introduction of the Act given it is an issue which is causing many members of its support great concern and distress?

• What representations have Celtic officials made to police and government regarding the intimidation and harassment of Celtic supporters?

• Have there been any changes in the guidance given to stewards since early December and what is that nature of such a change?

•Is it now Club policy that Green Brigade merchandise is not to be allowed into the stadium?

•Is it now Club policy that political banners or other items are not to be allowed into the stadium for domestic league, cup and/or European games?

•Has an officer of the club been given responsibility for deciding what constitutes a political banner/scarf etc and who is that person?

•What checks are carried out on the suitability of persons being employed as stewards and have all of them been subject to disclosure?

•Given published stadium regulations on searching what is Celtic's policy re the searching of children and young people?

•Are the Club aware that it is difficult to see the identification badge of individual stewards?

• Could numbers be printed across the back and front of steward's high viz jackets?

•Why have Celtic (either in the form of statements from the Chief Executive or from a Club spokesperson) repeatedly gone to the press with condemnation of Celtic fans without investigating the facts or attempting to speak to supporters or their organisations? Examples of this are Udinese, Dundee, Milan and Motherwell but there are others.

• Will the Club give a commitment to speaking to individual fans (where relevant) or supporters' organisations prior to releasing statements critical of the Celtic support or sections of it?

• Why were people forced to relocate from Section 111?

•What discussions did Celtic have with Motherwell FC following on the events of 6th December and why was there a deviation from normal practise of no publicity regarding damage to seats on that occasion?

I couldn't make last night's meeting as I'm back on the night shift for a few weeks but it's good to see more and more supporters are opening their eyes and questioning the direction of the club. I did speak to Jeanette earlier today and she seemed happy the way things went last night, hopefully the numbers will be up again at the next meeting.

Hail Hail

HB, fair points above.

But this bit:

"As these actions were obviously politically motivated and given that Celtic had not denounced them as promised, the Green Brigade felt that they were justified in using these banners to draw attention to the intimidation being experienced by Celtic fans."

My point is this: just because the GB felt they were justified doesn't mean Celtic Park was the right place to show it. If my neighbour steals my flower pot I may well feel justified to smack him on the nose but that doesn't mean it's right.

Hail Hail

Is this a fair reflection of the meeting? I would hope so but as Hamiltonbhoy obviously has it in for Celtic and the present board I doubt. There seems to be more interest in political issues than football ones. If I was so against legislation brought in by the Scottish Parliament I would be lobbying my MSP not using a football club to further my own Political views whether right or wrong!

@DesH This is The Celtic Trust's minutes, so if you think these points have it in for Celtic then take it up with them, not me.

As for the OBaF act, it affects us all whether you like it or not. Scottish football fans are being criminalised, not just Celtic fans, but if you want to put your head back in the sand ditch you pulled it out to make your comments then so be it.

Yeah oh Hamilton bhoy whatever. But if I disliked as much about Celtic as you obviously do I wouldn't go near Parkhead again.

Are you another moron that thinks anyone who doesn't tow the party line can't be a real fan DesH? It's people like you that are allowing the board to shaft supporters and it's people like you who disgrace our support with accusations against fellow fans for having a different point of view than the panty wetter consumers. Who the f**k do you think you are to question people's support, if I was you I'd take a leaf out of your own book and stay away from Celtic Park, we have enough ostriches in the support.

There's a difference between disliking the PLC that run the club and disliking the club itself. I, like many others, were there before them and will remain there after they leave!

And your not questioning anything Che! Nothing will stop me going to support the team I support even, ahem to coin a phrase "morons" like you. As I said before keep politics out of football. If your that worried about Political decisions take it up with your local MSP.

Political? Can you explain that or is it just another soundbite that you consumers at Celtic Park come out with yet you don't understand? Celtic Park is the name of the stadium by the way, not Parkhead, I'm surprised such a super-duper smashing supporter like you didn't know that.

If what I say is political then by using your own warped understanding so must be your posts. We are talking about the same thing after all but from different viewpoints.