Celtic Banter Archive November 29 2015

29 Nov 2015 16:00:11
Never seem to have it easy in Inverness regardless of their position in the League so credit to Ronny and the players a welcome 3 points to keep us clear.

From tomorrow i don't think i'll manage back onto the site until next year so keep up the great work Ed's and best wishes and good health to you all for the Festive and 2016

HH.

{Ed007's Note - And the same to you Stan, have a great time.}

29 Nov 2015 21:34:04
You to Stan all the best for the new year take care of yourself.

29 Nov 2015 16:34:16
Watching. psv and de Jong scoring again (32 in 44) psv bought him for around 3.8million scepovic and cifti cost around 3.8million. time for new scouts?

29 Nov 2015 17:48:32
We paid just shy of 4 million for cifti, you are living in cloud cuckoo land, not even over 2 million guarantied.

29 Nov 2015 18:42:35
Fab2 he meant a combined total.

29 Nov 2015 19:02:28
Sorry never seen the sepovic bit, but your right our whole recruitment policy needs a massive overhaul.

30 Nov 2015 00:15:42
Why don't some of the posters on here send there Cv's to Lawwell and take up a scouting role for Celtic . Seems if they see a player once on TV they can decide how much better they are than the Celtic purchases .
I am sure there were matches played this weekend in a lot more pleasant climate than Celtic today.

{Ed007's Note - I'm surprised Fab2 hasn't been all over this telling DRB how rubbish the Dutch league is and how we should be easily beating teams from Holland.}

30 Nov 2015 01:02:06
How do you know how many times I've seen de Jong? ? blade . pukka. . bangura . s cepoviv. cifti. fridjonsson. nouinoui. Miku. . too name a few . have been brought in by the scouting system if you think that's good enough keep the green tinted glasses on. keep your head in the sand . and be happy .

. if you think de Jong is worse than the players I've mentioned and the scouts are doing a good job recruiting strikers then you are deluded.

30 Nov 2015 07:57:56
Now your putting word's in my mouth ed, I said Ajax were a very poor team and were their for the taking, I think anyone who watched the games would agree, as for the Dutch league, it has gone downhill recently but still produces some top top players as harry would say, as for de jong took his goals well and could easily have scored a hatrick but chased nothing all day so would not have fitted into rds unbendable criteria for playing in his team, where running around like a headless chicken chasing lost causes is more important than skills or ability.

{Ed007's Note - Ajax are top of their league, a far superior league to the SPFL in terms of technical ability. PSV are third in that league and beat they beat Man Utd in Holland and drew with them at Old Trafford. You said:

'We certainly spend more money than the majority of teams from, Sweden, Norway, Holland, and Poland, so why are we not getting better players than them?'

How much more than Ajax or PSV do we spend on youth development and our academy?}

30 Nov 2015 18:24:27
I have no idea of the figures they spend on their youth development ed but whatever it is they have got it right, we do spend more money than the majority of teams in Holland , so ed if we were dropped into the Dutch league with the team we have tomorrow, do you think we would be above, Ajax, psv, feyenoord, or az , I don't yet I would imagine our squad cost more to assemble than there's, why is that? Is it because they are coached and managed better than our team? Or is it there recruitment policy is better than ours? I don't think we are getting value for money or the best out of the players we have, both those problems are caused by the manager or are you telling me rd has no say in the recruitment and coaching of our players .

{Ed007's Note - I have no idea what point you're making, yesterday you were saying we should be beating teams from Holland.}

30 Nov 2015 19:19:39
We have signed some players over the last five or six years who have come to the club knuckled down with our coaches and managers and become super players over a short number of years . Unfortunately they have insisted in moving to the money diseased EPL and we haven't had long time playing time from them .
Unfortunately we have also signed a far greater number who came here thinking that hard work and dedication wasn't for them .
We cannot make young players train and work .
Watching players on TV isn't exactly a certain sure way of picking out new recruits, it seems watching in flesh doesn't always work either but it's the standard norm in the industry.

30 Nov 2015 19:24:07
Yes and I'm still saying that, where in my post did I not say anything to the contrary? You seem to think that success has no collation with the amount of money you spend, I disagree, yes sure the odd time Celtic will beat Barcelona or psv will beat man u but the majority of the time the team who has the bigger budget wins, but not in our case, why is that, imo bad management. Would I be right in saying that out of all the teams we have played in Europe this year we have a vastly higher wage bill and transfer budget than them all other than the Turks? Yet how many game's have we won in Europe this year? 2 against a part time team from Finland and a one nil victory over a team from Azerbaijan, and you think this is progressing? You think this is acceptable? If you look at my posts from the summer then you will remember how I feel regarding the cl and how I was belittled for calling it an overrated money making exercise and how I was vilified for saying I was exited and looking forward to our Europa league campaign as I felt it was our level and a more level playing field for our club, but it was neither enjoyable or exiting due to imo bad decisions ond naive tactics from Ronnie.

{Ed007's Note - So why should we be beating teams from Holland again?}

30 Nov 2015 20:23:14
We never looked like beating anyone in that group, even when we were 1-0 up against Ajax did you think we were going to go on and win confidingly? I didn't neither did the guys I was with or the guys sitting around us judging by there comments. I don't know if you went to all the European games ed and it's hard to put into words why but there is no confidence in rds team, I remember going to games against Barcelona, ac Milan, Porto, Bayern, and the top teams in Europe and really expecting to get a result ( didn't always work out ) but now I'm going to games against Dutch, polish, Swedish and Norwegian teams hoping we just don't get pumped again, and your telling me the manager has no responsibility for that .

{Ed007's Note - I expect CFC to win every game, I always have and always will but over the past 30 odd years there's been a lot of major disappointments in Europe and they weren't all RD's fault, I had teams managed by Billy McNeil (twice) and Davie Hay all the way through MON, WGS and NL and now RD all disappoint me, even MON disappointed me when we lost in Seville but luckily not many supporters would have shared my disappointment as it was wasn't the CL so they weren't interested. Every manager in our history except Jock Stein has been a failure in Europe - so why is it suddenly so important over the last two years?
I freely admit that my memory isn't what it was but I can't remember the same rabid clamour for previous manager's to get sacked for European failure yet, here we are with people who want RD sacked even though we've had consistently had European football and reached the latter stages in a European tournament under him.
Who are these people comparing us against to want the manager sacked?}

30 Nov 2015 21:23:33
I hope your right ed, I hope in a year or two we have a team full of Tierney's and rd has learned that it's not a crime to set up his team differently depending on the opposition and that he learns that it's not just how far players run during a game but how many telling passes they make or how many players they have went past and produced something game changing after it, as you know from previous discussions I don't give a monkeys what a manager or players background is as long as they do the best for Celtic in there future, as a man I really like Ronnie, as a manager I just don't think he has it, like I say hope I'm wrong, me and my pals will provide the passion all they need to do is provide the skills to drive us forward.

29 Nov 2015 13:59:05
Superstar striker scores acrobatic overhead kick on debut. The future is bright after all!

29 Nov 2015 13:17:02
Very average performance so far. Would have liked to have seen Allan getting his chance today, based on his last two substitute showings he would be better than what's out there today. Delighted to see Tierney though.

29 Nov 2015 13:05:01
Totally agree with stokes! Not a world beater by any means and has had his daft moments! But he's head and shoulders above ciftci for me! And on the actual game today. one of the worse games of football I've seen in a long long time! Surely it's just a matter of time before a change in management! I've never actually felt so low as a Celtic fan! It really is dire stuff!

29 Nov 2015 14:47:25
We won ffs! And stokes is a prick and a thug who should keep his opinion to himself, also a terrible terrible player, he should go and join up with his pal Lennon. The hate and need for RD to fail is shocking! I honestly think certain fans want us too lose.

29 Nov 2015 15:44:31
Agree with you on Stokes, he along with the 'usual suspects' Mulgrew, sick note etc should be given a one-way ticket. Send a message to thos not performing that they need to shape up or risk being shipped out. Please no 'panick buys in January' select players who are capable of adding value not those who 'might to a job in the future' we've seen too often what happens with them,

29 Nov 2015 15:46:07
I can't believe anyone could agree with Stokes. It's a long time since I have seen Stokes make any sort of a positive contribution for Celtic .
I don't think this will be a long time problem for Stokes as next season he will probably be locked up.

29 Nov 2015 10:58:09
Not been on for a while because I'm sick of listening to all the rd lover's with there bullshit stats about winning a league with no competition but ignoring the fact we have went through a Europa league campaign in a piss poor group without a single victory, it won't matter to these guys though as even costner and connery wouldn't be able to lay a glove on Ronnie according to his defender's but I read a post earlier that was absolutely ridiculous, it's ok to get pumped off a piss poor Ajax team because they won the champions league many moons ago and it is all the rangers media's fault because they are the one's who continue to play Gordon and won't give bailey a chance, they are the ones who play one up front no matter the opposition, they are the ones who play a 2-7-1 formation no matter how short it leaves us at the back and how ineffective it is up top . Ronnie and his tactics are shocking and the only reason we get away with it in Scotland is our player's are far superior to other teams, we can give players playing in Scotland a head start and catch them, we can let them created chance's because the majority of the time they are not good enough to take them, we can miss chances as with our superior players we will usually make a lot more than the opposition, but in Europe against teams closer to our budget and against players closer to our own players abilities, Ronnie is found wanting every time .

{Ed007's Note - So the wins are down to the players but losses are down to the manager? That seems fair enough.
Maybe we got beaten because the opposition players are better than ours just like we beat teams domestically because our players are better than the opposition.
All of a sudden we're some European superpower that should be sweeping away everyone who challenges our Europan dominance.}

29 Nov 2015 11:32:54
Why are there players superior to ours ed? We certainly spend more money than the majority of teams from, Sweden, Norway, Holland, and Poland, so why are we not getting better players than them? A good manager earns his crust against teams with better players and bigger budgets, it's when his tactics and motivational skill come under more pressure and scrutiny, so far Ronnie has let us down on nearly every occasion. Players don't need to be as tactically aware or pumped up usually to beat teams who's players are not as good as them but it is necessary to beat teams who have players who are as good as yours, you need to get an extra yard from your players on these occasions and Ronnie does not seem capable of doing that .

{Ed007's Note - You're contradicting yourself here, that doesn't make any sense. Man Utd have spent nearly £200 million over the last 2 years and drew with PSV.}

29 Nov 2015 11:52:06
Ed you can't take 1 result from Man U and say that proves the point. Look at the last 10 games in Europe. 10 games no wins. Look at the EL results. 2 points out of s possible 15! We know the club is all over the place top to bottom but RD's record is poor. I think fab2 got it right.

{Ed007's Note - Ok we'll take 2, PSV beat Man Utd over in Holland. I still don't know what point you're trying to make. Is it just a case of Good Stuff = Not RD's fault and Bad Stuff = All RD's fault?}

29 Nov 2015 12:07:50
well said ed.
However, we should at least be getting better results against some of the recent teams we have played.
RD can put the tactics in place but, on the park, he can't tell the player with the ball who is charging down on goal while three teammates are alongside him, pass the ball. At some point the player has to make a decision - pass or shoot. That is down to quality and experience.
At present we keep selling our quality players (and not to your Barcelonas, Man City's, Bayerns etc. ) so we have what we have.
Pass or shoot? If shoot is the choice then at least get it on target.
Like you said, win then its the players, lose and its RD to blame.
As I said earlier, we should be doing better in EL but we are just not good enough or up for it and the manager can only do so much to motivate but if the players have not got any personal pride and motivation then we might as well shut up shop.
I don't think getting rid of RD is the answer but I do think we need change - spending policy, backroom staff and Scouts.

29 Nov 2015 12:28:51
So man u have a crap manager as well, I don't give a monkeys about them . I don't think we are anywhere near a European superpower you said that not me, but I really think with our superior budget, fan base, and facilities we should not be getting pumped home and away by molde, if you are happy at that level fine but the vast majority of Celtic fans I speak to think we should have the abilities to compete in what was a piss poor el group, do you not think we should be able to compete at that level?

{Ed007's Note - I still don't know what you're on about. A piss poor EL that has us, Ajax and Fenerbahce in it? And Molde have proven that they are a decent team, not many teams go to Turkey and win.
Would you have been happier if it was the same teams, the same results but it was in the CL?
If you watch the games I really don't know how you can say we're not competing, isn't drawing with Ajax in Amsterdam a good result, drawing with Fenerbahce? Add to that that most of the losses have came about by individual errors and downright bad luck, doesn't mean we aren't competing, remember the manager isn't allowed on the park to kick the ball for the players, did RD tell Ambrose to mess up that header, did RD tell Craig Gordon to continually let us down or Scott Allan to get robbed of the ball on Thursday?
You started off about us beating Scottish teams because we have better players yet we still drop points in the league occasionally, remember Fenerbahce has Van Persie, Nani and Meireles, who have we got on £75k a week?
You don't think Ajax or Fenerbahce have better players than us and we should be beating them - when we beat teams it's because we have better players but when we lose it's RD's fault because other teams can't/shouldn't have better players than us - I think we'll just leave it at that.}

29 Nov 2015 13:02:13
So if we take Gordon for example are you telling me a good strong manager wouldn't recognize he is constantly letting us down and give another keeper a couple of games to at least stake a claim?

{Ed007's Note - How do you know Bailly is any better, what's his fitness like, is he up to match sharpness or should RD just play him so the fans can give him pelters if he's not 100%?
Remember we had people bashing the manager for weeks for not playing Scott Allan, it didn't matter that he was injured according to them RD should have dropped Johansen for him.}

29 Nov 2015 13:24:26
Surely he should be up to scratch with his fitness after 6 months with us and your right how do we know he is any better, if only we had a way of finding out, maybe and I know this is outside the box thinking, we could give him a game or two . Maybe he has been pish in training but is one of those players who don't train well but rises to the occasion on match days, if only there was a way to find out, I know, and again this is just thinking outside the box, maybe we could give him a game or two .

{Ed007's Note - So if he's been rank rotten in training we should play because you want to see him? I'd imagine Stevie Woods keeps RD bang up to date with the GK situation - you do know that GKs don't do much training with the rest of the players don't you, unless it's bounce games or set pieces they train separately?
Are you now saying that Stevie Woods isn't a good GK coach?}

29 Nov 2015 14:03:07
Well he rates Gordon obviously and you don't seem to, so the question should be do you think he is a good goalkeeper coach, I don't pretend to know everything about everything or even be right all the time, I don't know enough about me woods or his abilities as a coach to judge him, maybe Gordon won't listen to him or is un coachable.

{Ed007's Note - Maybe.}

29 Nov 2015 14:14:00
What are you saying ed that no matter how many times cg let's us down, we should just play him every week and not take a chance that we may have a better keeper on our doorstep? No one other than rd and the coaches know who is playing well or not in training, so we should just assume because they are not playing that rd has called every decision right? What's the point of these pages then if that is what we are to assume. It's simple Gordon when we needed him most has let us down, so why not give someone else a chance, it's not just so I can see what he can do .

{Ed007's Note - Are you seriously on here accusing me of backing Craig Gordon?}

29 Nov 2015 00:27:11
I can't belive we are where we are with all the so called experts from scouting pro, s to every other thing branded celtic all you people so called celtic fans are so sick of it there's a simple thing to do be where you are when celtic are at home watching live streams via android admitting i'm not enjoying the way were playing but i'm still in my seat at eevery home game.

29 Nov 2015 12:19:42
I replied earlier but its a fair comment.
Im a pay per go supporter due to my travelling abroad for work but I do my bit when I can and also make sure that any purchases are from recognised stores. (Some areas I travel cheap replica is easy but I don't do it)