Celtic Banter Archive November 16 2013

 

Use our rumours form to send us celtic transfer rumours.

16 Nov 2013 23:29:07
Curiously no one has come out criticising PL. Saying PL is out of order. Funny that. Nobody wants sued. The truth is the truth.
Even sevco only put a nameless announcement up. Which sevco board member is putting his name to that?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

PL is the most powerful man in Scottish football. He has powerful people with him and behind him. He brings millions into the game for all clubs.

Surely that £4.8m the sevvies had left is run out now? Wasn't the wee Govan guy in SA their last gasp chance? Is Sir Whytey manoeuvring now for his assets on admin?

Agree0 Disagree0

18 Nov 2013 12:54:20
The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it.

A lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it.

Agree0 Disagree0

16 Nov 2013 20:55:25
Hi Ed
Enjoyed the Ronaldo/Messi spat on the page earlier. Can see both sides of the argument though to defend Ronaldo, he has learned his trade in Portugal where extreme gamesmanship in football is par for the course. They have a lot of Brazilian players who exaggerate every contact and this has flavoured the way the game has been played in Portugal. Personally, I think the Portuguese league is the worst in Europe for this type of gamesmanship. I am not sure what to make of the Messi situation, however, his performances do appear to be consistently super human - so you can make of that what you will, but the human body has a way of levelling the playing field over time. Messi seems to be picking up a few injuries of late - a bit like Rafa Nadal (tennis) and we will need to see how this pans out.

In terms of the Peter Lawwell situation, I was reading on the CQN that the laughs at The Rangers expense are a recognition that Celtic are the unrivalled power in Scottish football with every club benefiting from our exploits in the Champions League. Should PL be making jokes about another club given his status in the SFA? I am not sure about this however, he is right though, The Rangers are a joke club. Apart from events over the past two years what about the most recent stuff. Such as postponing two games because they have a couple of players called up for international duty, also, their response to PL's joke was pathetic and I would be interested to hear what BDO would have to say about the comments that accompanied their complaint. Surely The Rangers should be pointing out that they are a new club with a new name and distancing themselves from the disgraced RFC.

Anyway in light of PL's comments let's hope there aren't any extreme reactions from the follow follow brigade.

Bankie Bhoy

Believable0 Unbelievable0

They were originally listed in the SFL league div 3 as "The Rangers" not "Rangers" for several weeks. With no history listed.
This was before their cronies in the game, Ogilvie at SFA and Longmuir at SFL decided to go along with the "same club" myth.
"Rangers" is being dropped for "The Rangers" more and more. The ex RFC player whom received a replacement medal called the current club "The Rangers" not "Rangers".

Agree0 Disagree0

Under Scots Law an incorporated football club is not a legal entity/ identity separate and distinct to the operating company. They are one and the same.
There are not two boards of directors, one board for the club and one for the company.
Players and staff work for the club and have contracts with clubs.
On stock exchanges the corporate name followed by "plc" normally has "THE CLUB" or "THE FOOTBALL CLUB" after it.
Uefa and SFA regulations apply to incorporated clubs. Not separately to two entities; a club and a company.

Agree0 Disagree0

Their myth is a house of cards and PLs quip is going to tumble the whole nonsense down. Mark my words.

Agree0 Disagree0

16 Nov 2013 17:10:54
Neil Lennon is guest on Goals on Sunday tomorrow 11am . Should be good . DH

Believable0 Unbelievable0

16 Nov 2013 17:04:37
Do you know there are thousands of sevco supporters out there who don't know what liquidation means. I blame the schools

Believable0 Unbelievable0

16 Nov 2013 16:53:11
Congratulations to Efe who helped Nigeria qualify for world cup today. don't know if this is good or bad for us as will probably miss CL qualifiers

Believable0 Unbelievable0

16 Nov 2013 14:38:36

{Ed007's Note - I received a reply e-mail from JB regarding the tracksuit top someone was looking for the other day. The lucky sod is sunning himself abroad but here is his message:

Those jackets (the Nike ones) are sold out and Celtic's own version with the Celtic Cross were running really low so not sure what, if any, sizes are left.I know there are none in the warehouse so if there's any left it will be limited.Could you pass on the message from me please as I won't be back until next week.

JungleBhoy

Believable0 Unbelievable0

I hope THE RANGERS do make a complaint as it would be great for us all to hear once and for all that they are a new club and the media would have to admit it as Will THE RANGERS, well done new sevco, your cries
will cause you embarrassment. Hail hail, well said PL!

Agree0 Disagree0

16 Nov 2013 12:53:07
The SFA have instructed Peter Lawell to make an apology to Rangers after his comments yesterday . Mr Lawell is slightly confused as he doesn't know which Rangers he's to apologise to . DH

Believable0 Unbelievable0

Charles green spoke about Celtic constantly and nobody bothered. Gordon Smith backed old co constantly in his sofa role, why uproar now?

Agree0 Disagree0

Direct statement from Lord Nimmo smith

"Paragraphs 2 and 6 of the list of preliminary issues advance essentially the same argument, which is that on14th June 2012, when the business and assets old oldco were purchased and transferred to newco, Rangers FC ceased to be a club as defined in the rules, and is accordingly not subject to the jurisdiction of the SPL, and thus of this commission, in relation to any breech or breeches of the rules committed prior to that date.

Agree0 Disagree0

I hope he stands his ground this time and takes them to task about this OldCo NewCo garbage as validation and vilification is long overdue on this charade that the SFA have created.
They are a new club and it must be officially declared and admitted.

JJ

Agree0 Disagree0

Oldco newco is absolute dung. Everybody knows it.
The only way they win with this bs is if good people just get tired with the argument. Keep up the good fight and I guarantee we will win.
Old RFC was an incorporated football club that went bust. A new football club was started and incorporated. And treated as such by the SFA under the regs.-no memberships.

Agree0 Disagree0

Sevco want an apology, if they are the same team? that robbed the tax paying public and tax paying teams of Scotland, of over a hundred million pound that could have went to help the people of Scotland with schools hospitals and so on where is ther apology, and as for jokes ther is only one joke in Scotland and every morning for two years I have woke up laughing, jodrok

Agree0 Disagree0

Let's organise a 60,000 man march on Hampden. PL has NO CASE TO ANSWER. {Ed007's Note - At least make sure it is open first.}

Agree0 Disagree0

16 Nov 2013 00:59:02
The other expected contentious issue was a resolution from supporters asking the club to report the SFA to Uefa for granting Rangers a licence to play in the Champions League when they owed £2.8 million in the then crystallised "wee tax case". Before that could be voted on, an indefinite adjournment was sought by the requisitioners, who had been satisfied by meetings with the club. "They will remain private, " said Lawwell.-----

Wtf is that all about? A lot of us supported that resolution so we deserve to know what's going on!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

16 Nov 2013 10:15:18
In homage to Mr. Lawell, if we are ever unfortunate to meet Sevco for the first time in our long history, Rory masks all round!

Although personally I hope we never have the misfortune to meet them!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

16 Nov 2013 00:16:22
Kinda counting seats, but just noticed Celtic FC 1888 have 570,000 likes on Facebook and sevco 2012 have 370,000. They need 124 years and 200,000 sevvies more to catch up. Highly unlikely.
And oh! The European cup.

Charles Green has gone and so has his lie.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

Literally have no clue what this post is meant to be about

GunnieBhoy

Agree0 Disagree0

Agree gunniebhoy spent about ten mins trying to figurę it out

Agree0 Disagree0

I understand it. Pretty simple really.

We're better than them.

There's more of us.

We've won the equivalent of the holy grail in club football terms. they haven't.

Charles Green was a lying c*nt.

The Rangers we knew and hated died in 2012 so therefore this abomination they are supporting now have no history.


Stevensee88

Agree0 Disagree0

16 Nov 2013 00:02:25
What a turd Ronaldo having a wee fly but at Lustig then having the cheek to mock him as if he acting, another example of why Messi is head and shoulders above him {Ed007's Note - But Ronaldo got where he is by sheer hard work and natural ability, he never needed HGH to have a career.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

Ronaldo is nothing but a cheating, diving barsteward in my opinion, remember Lee Naylor
Tambhoy {Ed007's Note - So taking HGH isn't cheating? Try telling Lance Armstrong that one, you'll have them rolling in the aisles. Look into the history of it at Barca and Pep's time in the most corrupt league in the world, Serie A.
The doctor involved in all the cases should be questioned in a court of law. If Messi hadn't taken HGH (steroids) he would never have been a professiobal footballer, hardly seems fair to youngsters that don't make it in the game.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Think you may be a bit harsh on Messi there ED.

From what I can gather, messi was prescribed HGH for medical reasons as a youngster, due to lack of growth.

He would still have had to work hard and continue to work hard to get to where he has got to today.

I know of some kids given HGH to stimulate their paturity gland due to lack of growth or premature puberty, that does not mean they are going to excell in any discipline more than their peers that have not.

You may have some incriminating evidence, you may like to share to enlighten the naive among us.

Frewbhoy

Agree0 Disagree0

So does that also include all players who have medication that helps them diabetics, asthma and loads more.
These players need that or they wouldn't be the players they are.
Messi had some sort of condition so in ma opinion perfectly entitled to use hormone replacement.
Knob oft is denying Ronaldo has worked hard and is 2nd best player in the world but he lacks sportsmanship {Ed007's Note - Diabetes is totally different altogether. Messi had a condition that would have physically stopped him being a professional player, without HGH and blood transfusions we would never have heard of him.
You're opinion doesn't matter sadly, there are rules that govern the game, rules Barca and Messi broke.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Ed I don't know anything about Messi taking steroid's, I do know that he doe's not dive all over the place and try to get player's sent off, unlike your darling Ronaldo, you should really try to curtail all this hatred you feel for Barcelona
Tambhoy {Ed007's Note - And CFC fans should curtail their pathetic and embarrassing love-in with Barca.}

Agree0 Disagree0

So Ed you're saying that he shouldn't have been taking HGH 14 years ago to help his condition not just in terms of height but other conditions such as immune system muscle growth and bone growth? I'm sorry but I disagree with you his skill has nothing to do with HGH.

Chad {Ed007's Note - Would he be a top professional player without HGH? No. So how can you say they haven't played a part in the player he has become, that's ludicrous to say the least.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Ed good work as usuall but have to take you to task on this. Messi had an op when younger to help his growth as it was perceived he would never be tall enough. Taking drugs may have been part of this (steroids or not)they are not illegal and he wudnt have taken them as a pro.Only his doctor would know this and you are going on hearsay.his man has been a total pro in his career esp in this day and age of diving he wants to stay on his feet, not something we can say about Ronaldo. He head butted Lustig then accused him of over reacting oh the irony lol. Remember Scott brown got sent off for less and I hope Uefa take action on him as the ref took none. {Ed007's Note - I am hardly going on hearsay when the story has had vast coverage in the Spanish press. Would your reaction be the same if it came out that Novo had received the same HGH treatment as Messi? You say obly his doctor would know this, would this be the same doctor at the centre of the scandal who has came out and stated that if he told everything he knew Spain would be stripped of their World Cup and Euro Championship.
Can you point out the hearsay in all of that?

www.hghbenefits.net/

Agree0 Disagree0

16 Nov 2013 12:18:52
Ed. You have kind of contradicted yourself here on this issue.
You say messi would not have made it if not taking the drugs prescribed by medics and allowed by fifa and uefa .
Then say diabetes and asthma are different. Well not really if a asthmatic is breathless and can't breath he rakes his inhaler and it help him control his breathing . Without the inhaler he would not be able to brearh and manage to run around the pitch and play . Same with diabetes and drugs to control the sugar levels. The difference is messi no longer needs the drugs asthmatics and diabetics do .

Give the man credit as no matter what he took when he was younger to help his condition its his skill and drive that makes him the player he is the little tax dodging rubbish that he is.

Im a celtuc and madrid man but to end the argument I still think there room for both messi and ronaldo in the celtic squad but what on starts on the bench behind big sami you can all argue about.

Selboy . {Ed007's Note - Is using an inhaler or insulin breaking the anti-doping laws of the game? There is no contradiction there whatsoever.
It is also known that you dont take steroids and stop using them one fine day abruptly. Messi has a deficiency which is a life long problem which means he has to be taking doses throughout his life. Normally HGH production level falls after the teenage years (growth phase) but it may be possible that Messi is being administered higher than normal levels of this powerful hormone under the guise of his therapy which gives him a clear advantage over his peers. Also, HGH is more difficult to detect than most other performance enhancing drugs, such as anabolic steroids which is why it is abused by many powerlifters and athletes even today. Barca's secretive dealings with a certain doctor don't help their case:

http://goo.gl/wULFT

Agree0 Disagree0

Ed couldn't agree more. There r rules to follow and an allowed drug list for all sorts of conditions so there are options available to athletes for all sorts of conditions. Barca would know this. I know athletes who r paranoid about taking the wrong hay fever pill in case they r drug tested. Hgh requires a blood test to show up on a drug test (not just a urine test), many sports can't afford to pay for that kind of testing so there r athletes "getting away" with using banned substances. Obviously football is not one of those sports. Andy Murray called operation puerta one of the biggest cover ups in sport. If your good enough u don't need to cheat, drug taking, diving, whatever but money talks! {Ed007's Note - I'm sure I read somewhere that there are only FOUR players each weekend from the whole of La Liga selected be tested. If the truth ever comes out about this it will be the biggest sporting scandal since Calciopoli in Italy in 2006, remember how people said that couldn't happen either?
It's just another example of it not being allowed to be discussed because it is Barca, the golden apple of UEFA's eye.}

Agree0 Disagree0

ED in your answer to sellboy, you completly beat your own argument, you say Messi has a deficiency which is a life long problem, in other word's he HAS to take this medication, why don't you just admit you are wrong for once. Messi is not only a better player than Ronaldo but also a better sportsman
Tambhoy {Ed007's Note - I am not wrong. If it wasn't for Messi using HGH he would never have been a professional footballer, that is a well known and well accepted fact.. It is illegal to use HGH/steroids in sport, it is not illegal to use insulin or an inhaler. What part of that can't you grasp? It's not something I am making up. It is in the rules.
If it was legal why don't every club in the world use HGH on their youngsters?}

Agree0 Disagree0

@9 so why have Barca not been pulled up for it, in your own word's he Has to take them, what part are you not grasping, so the guy should just die or become seriously ill, behave yourself man, you have contradicted yourself on this post, just accept for once your wrong
Tambhoy {Ed007's Note - I'm still waiting on you proving me wrong over this. It is you that is condoning cheating, as long as it suits.}

Agree0 Disagree0

You're up against it here ed. Could be something in what you say but most people seem to believe he stopped taking them when he was 17. Over last 5 years I think Messi has been better player than cr7 but think he might have already peaked whereas the best maybe still to come from Ronaldo. No doubt he's a wonderful talent just wish he would cut out the theatrics. Inccidently 10 years today since Messi made his debut for Barca. {Ed007's Note - There is definitely something in what I'm saying...


www.nairaland.com/626706/10-barcelona-players-facing-drug

www.dw.de/the-fuentes-doping-scandal/a-16550737

http://goo.gl/Eegcfl

www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

bleacherreport.com/articles/1492546-lionel-messi-and-hgh-the-truth-about-the-best-footballer-in-the-world

One journalist wrote ", Messi's use was LIKELY discontinued after he reached adulthood. FC Barcelona and Messi's representatives did not respond to my request for comment on this issue and have made no public comments in years regarding Messi's medical treatments."

Why be so secretive about it. The point of the matter is that without illegal drug usage none of us would have ever heard of Messi, he wouldn't have had any sort of career so the drugs are responsible for his physical ability to play football. He grew from 4ft2 up to 5ft7 because of the treatment, so that is fair?
If there is nothing wrong with doing it why aren't other clubs openly doing it? Forrest, Matthews and some of the youngsters could surely benefit from HGH usage? You should read up on it, it is fascinating and eye-opening, even Real Madrid and a few other Spanish teams seem to be embroiled in it, hence the Dr Fuentes statement when he was arrested that he had "information that could strip Spain of its World Cup and Uefa championship." }

Agree0 Disagree0

@10 So the man has to take these drug's to survive or halve a better life and you say he is cheating, it is obviously not cheating or Barcalona would have been pulled up for it. I don't have to prove you wrong, you have already proved yourself wrong by saying he has a life long deficiency and has to take these drug's, you also put yourself in a corner by stating it MAY be possible that Messi is being administered higher level's of this drug, in other word's you are adding thing's to try and prove yourself right, you don't actually know if he is being given higher dose's.
Tambhoy {Ed007's Note - Lance Armstrong took drugs to give him a better life, do you think that is ok, what about Hulk Hogan, would he have his money and fame without steroids? No, and neither would Messi. If the drugs were administered to help him have a normal life that is all well and good, but they weren't, they were given to give him the physicality to become a football player, without them he would never have been a football player, are you that stupid that can't sink in?

I never said any such thing abut him still taking them, if you have bothered reading the articles I have been posting you will seen where it says:

It is also known that you dont take steroids and stop using them one fine day abruptly. Messi has a deficiency which is a life long problem which means he has to be taking doses throughout his life. Normally HGH production level falls after the teenage years (growth phase) but it may be possible that Messi is being administered higher than normal levels of this powerful hormone under the guise of his therapy which gives him a clear advantage over his peers. Also, HGH is more difficult to detect than most other performance enhancing drugs, such as anabolic steroids which is why it is abused by many powerlifters and athletes even today

The article is here:

glipho.com/badboe/is-messi-benefitting-from-the-use-of-the-steroids

I don't need to prove I am right, I know I am. It's you that is condoning illegal drug-taking in sport, not me.
Answer me one simple question with a yes or no. Would Lionel Messi be the footballer he is today, with all it's trappings if he had not been given HGH treatment? A straight yes or no answer is all that is required.......}

Agree0 Disagree0

I agree with Ed.

This isn't something he's heard in a pub and brought up- it's pretty well documented.

And for people claiming that he's contradicted himself, and even more ridiculous, that he's saying Messi should be allowed to die (!), you're missing the point. Ed's not saying he shouldn't get such treatment, he's saying that without said treatment he literally couldn't have made it as a Pro footballer- and that's a fact.

Now, as extreme an example as this is, say someone loses there leg when they're fourteen but gets a new advanced prosthetic one which gives him the ability to become a pro footballer, an ability that he simply wouldn't have had; is this allowed? No, of course not. And this isn't about whether said operation allows him to run faster, hit the ball harder etc, but the point remains- despite how ridiculous an example it is.

I've always favoured Ronaldo, and yeah maybe it's because of following Manchester United, but one thing I have never been able to get is this strange love in with Messi; claiming that he is an inspiration to millions, and has god given talent etc etc etc. if that's the case, surely Ronaldo is, and quite frankly should be, a BIGGER inspiration; here's someone who had talent, but also the work ethic and ambition to literally MAKE himself into one of (if not thee) best player in the world.

. but maybe it's just me who finds someone who shows how it can be done by working hard- as opposed to someone who is given a gift from god- more of an inspiration.

Sorry to steam in and talk for you Ed! {Ed007's Note - No need to apologise . I'm glad of your input.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Thing is its not illegal if he hasn't took them while a pro.If he still needed to take them he could be granted a therapeutic use exemption which I m sure he would have been granted since he was on it from age 11. {Ed007's Note - Why do Barca refuse to discuss the matter. Surely they should take the chance to clarify it once and for all.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Messi may or may not have cheated but what is for sure is that Ronaldo is a girls blouse a great great player who could be a world class player if wasn't for the cheating he does on the park every week
Andybhoy73 {Ed007's Note - Each to their own Andy.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Clearly ed knows what he is spouting about and far more knowledgeable on the matter than most of us including a bum like me. I would however like my say. @13 ronaldo is not an inspiration like messi as he is a cheat. Pure and simple. Ronaldo is this athletic, modern sleazy and charming character that has the world at his feetyet proceeds to act like a burst condom when tackled. Messi however is the wee guy. The rough underdog looking guy. A guy who captured the hearts of many a football fan when he burst onto the scene. That's the difference. People can relate to messi more as he is more normal ( except when he has a ball at his plates ) but all in all a showman for the poor. Not some flashy slick who tears a new Ferrari into a million bits and smiles for the paps afterwards. No doubt had messi not been using HGH at some point in his life then he would not have been who he is today in football which is what ed is saying. In that same note he would also not have been the person he is either. But that is not what ed is saying. Don't just jump in like sevconians and explode all your thoughts onto the page like a horse ejaculating in heat.
Peace be with you all
ParadiseAndy

Agree0 Disagree0

I think what Ed is trying to say is Messi could of course take HGH to help all these things you have stated, immune system growth, bone growth etc. But he should have been like a million other teenage footballers and been told his dream is over of becoming a professional footballer because of the fact he needs to take HGH even now and how can anyone prove its not helping him have a physical advantage over other players. If infact it is, it amounts to cheating.

Basically they seen how sublimely talented he was as a child but knew physically he couldn't make it so they agreed (Barca and then the whole governing body) to let this happen and when you look at it in the cold light of day it is not fair. Not fair to any player (aspiring sportsman or woman) who has ever failed to make the grade because of there height or size. Even if your opinion might be they were right to let this child genius footballer have this advantage for the good of the game and for to see the unbelievable talent he has become the fact is Ed has a valid point.

love him or hate him Ronaldo is physically miles ahead of Messi and he got there by having good genes and working his b*llocks off. Messi won the golden ticket that millions of sportsmen and woman would have given absolutely anything for. {Ed007's Note - You've hit the nail on the had for me there mate.}

Agree0 Disagree0

@17 - I think I have misread what you have said and really hope Ed has as well!

You have just said because he was born with a medical condition/disability he should just have crawled off into a corner and accepted he could not compete with someone who was born without a condition/disability ie Ronaldo.

Really just leave sports to those born perfect, is that what you are saying.

Well my Brother has a disability and has worked since he was 18 only through a fight my Mum and Dad had, should he also have left jobs to folk born NORMAL?

Yeah, Messi your Dad should have made you stay in Argentina and refused an offer of treatment. Folk born with any disability or illness realty ought to know their place in Society!

If I have misunderstood the post then sorry but this is how I read it. {Ed007's Note - That's not how I read it Mrs E. I read it saying exactly what I have been saying, without this treatment Messi would never have had a sniff of a professional sports career and his participation in taking part in the treatment should have nullified any chance he did have of having a sporting career.
Would a boxer who had used HGH for years been allowed in a boxing ring as a professional or would his opponent have accepted a defeat from nothing more than a fabricated sportsman, or weight-lifting, marathon running? This is professional footballing we are talking about not some steroid-induced freak show like the WWE. Remember the scandal in snooker over players using beta-blockers to keep their nerves calm? That was the gaining an unfair advantage over opponents, exactly what Messi had over every other young footballer.
Remember Garrincha, he was born with several birth defects: his spine was deformed, his right leg bent inwards and his left leg was six cms shorter and curved outwards, none of these impeded his ability to play football at the highest level.
I would love to see everyone's position on this matter if it was Nacho Novo, Wayne Rooney or even Ronaldo that had been giving this help to carve a career.}

Agree0 Disagree0

@12 The answer is I don't know, you say you did not say these thing's, read the post, as for being stupid, this coming from someone who think's he is right on all thing's, I would suggest you look in a mirror and see for yourself who is stupid, I have not once contradicted myself, you have. Oh and by the way watched programme tonight about your darling Ronaldo, his two mucker's said he is a diver, point proven
Tambhoy {Ed007's Note - Well your answer says it all doesn't it, everyone else knows the answer but you don't have the minerals to admit it. I'm still waiting on you pointing out where I am wrong or where I have contradicted myself (you do know what a contradiction is don't you?).
I'm glad you enjoyed the programme about the world's best natural footballer.
The reason you haven't contradicted yourself is because you haven't said anything of any substance or came forward with any evidence to refute the plenty I have. You're obviously not the brightest bulb in the box so there is no point debating with an idiot, they only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. You're by far one of the thickest people I have had the misfortune to speak to, maybe you should do some reading before kidding on you know what all the intelligent people are talking about.}

Agree0 Disagree0

This isn't another sport though its football, he wanted to play football and his family done exactly what any other family would have done.


His medication was allowed therefore not cheating. Its not a Morton player or Manchester United player its Messi so you won't get opinions on these players. They were all born fit and healthy.

Children suffering from Growth Hormone Deficiency can end up with serious health problems so it becomes a necessity. We all have glands which produce growth hormones naturally. Messi was suffering from deficiency of that as a child. To assume giving this child treatment turned him into a fantastic footballer and gave him the skills he has is incredible. He had a deficiency that Ronaldo's body was producing naturally. Messi wasn't overdosing and was a child!

If anyone is using a medical condition or disability to put someone down who is naturally gifted (does not matter who he/she is) then shame on them. That is my opinion and envy springs to mind.


I would also love to see everyone's opinion on the matter if Barcelona had taken the gamble with Messi and he ended up not making their B team or if his Parents had been well off enough to pay for it themselves. This debate would not be happening.

Messi was NATURALLY gifted but the difference between him and Ronaldo is - Ronaldo's body was naturally producing the growth hormone, Messi's wasn't and because of this the poster is saying Messi should not have pursued his dreams. Awful! {Ed007's Note - He was naturally gifted but wasn't naturally physically fit to be a professional player, that should have put paid to it.
If you aren't fit enough to participate in the professional within the rukes of the sport then you shouldn't be doing it.
If you can't naturally compete then you shouldn't be competing. Over the years I have knocked a few people out with one punch, does that mean I should have been allowed to fight Mike Tyson and giving steroids to help me get to that level?
It's not exactly a beacon of sporting morality is it when one of the world's best players had to rely on HGH to even have any career.
Again the whole point is that without HGH we would never have heard of Messi. The part HGH has had in his career is massive and can not, or should not, be ignored. If it is all legal and above board why don't Barca prove it once and for all and end all the speculation? That would be the easy thing to do.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Ed youve pi$$ed some of your readers right off tonight. Re:the fairness thing yous talk about, what's not fair is someone having the last say always. Anyway let's take football and drugs out of the topic and ask who is the best sportsman

Ps got to be messi for me all day every day, ., .kbarry {Ed007's Note - A lot of people get pi$$ed off when you do't blow sunshine up Barca's ass, I prefer to form my own opinion on things KB. Your question is an easy one, Roy Keane is my all time favourite sportsman, not just footballer.}

Agree0 Disagree0

I have to say ed you do seem to see no wrong in ronnyboy I know we're you comming from with messi but is it not also wrong to cheat on the park week in and out what I will say is both are world class I myself prefer messi as he is a more likeable human than the other poser but both re a mile away from maradona (another cheat on and off the park haha) people only see what is front of them and forget the past so let's just enjoy these players while thy are here on a side note iam sick of people saying this is the worst Celtic team in history because Ajax beat us do they they not know their history as the song goes I remember the team who lost the 1st 5 titles when rangers were on their to 9inarow we were that bad I had to go to Spain to work haha were I saw the great barcalona team of the 90's with the fat ronnie now there was another world class player and I could get into the camp nou to see him for around £10. Or go to parkhead and see Wayne biggins Carl muggleton for£17 aha no contest parkhead it was
Hail Hail
Andybhoy73 {Ed007's Note - I do wish Ronaldo would cut out his histrionics on the park Andy I really do because I feel he doesn't need to do that. I do honestly feel that Ronaldo is a better all round player than Messi (who I don't question his ability, just the luggage that goes with it).
Ronaldo could walk into any team in England, Spain, Germany or Italy and instantly improve the team, I'm not convinced Messi could do that. The whole Barca team and style is geared towards him, the question is whether he could adapt to another style of play. Ronaldo has proven he can. Ronaldo isn't the c**t he is made out to be and Messi isn't the angel he is made out to be, there are plenty of stories about both that prove otherwise.
And after everything that has happened over the last few years in Scotland sections of the CFC support seem suddenly fine with people not paying taxes ;) Tut Tut.}

Agree0 Disagree0

What isn't above board?

Its widely known Barca paid for his treatment.

Yes Messi needed treatment to give him a better life that others get by the grace of God, why is that so bad and why can anyone be against giving a naturally gifted child the chance to play football? {Ed007's Note - " Messi's use was 'lilkely' discontinued after he reached adulthood. FC Barcelona and Messi's representatives did not respond to my request for comment on this issue and have made no public comments in years regarding Messi's medical treatments.' is a direct quote from someone investigating the matter.
He didn't naturally deserve the chance, he needed help to have a career at all. Why not just pump our kids full of steroids at school to give them a better chance at sports. Messi grew by 17 inches because of HGH, if I done that I could be playing for Boston Celtics in the NBA, why should Messi get the help to improve his chances and not me?
Lance Armstrong needed treatment to give him a better life, so did Ben Johnson, what's your point? With out their respective treatments they would have just been anonymous athletes, just like Messi would, and probably should, be. There are young players turned away from clubs every year because they are told they are too small to make it, why doesn't the club just use HGH to build them up? Where do you draw the line?
This information is all easily available on the internet, it's not something I have made up, there is a cloud hanging over Barca about this and they are doing nothing to clear the sky. Ever wondered why Messi looks like a deformed Hobbit: Possible side effects of HGH;

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/3101343.stm

Agree0 Disagree0

Every player at every Club does not have a deficiency nor does every Child at school so why on earth would you give them treatment? {Ed007's Note - If they are not physically excelling at a sport then why not? They have a deficiency of talent, might as well give them a leg up, Eastern Europeans behind the Iron Curtain done it for years. Just like Messi got because physically he would have NEVER made it as a professional player. If you do not have the natural ability and qualities to play professional sport you shouldn't be playing it, any help apart from good coaching and your own personal hard work is blatantly cheating, especially when it is from chemicals. }

Agree0 Disagree0

But Mrs E. a lot of players don't have natural ability- so by your rationale, it's okay to "even the playing field" in that sense.

I know a lot of people who were desperate to be professional footballers, some were really talented but just never made it- and some were never going to because of their size- but that's just the way of it.

Ed makes a point- I'm 6', so way too small to be a basketball player, but what if that was my dream? Should I be allowed chemical enhancement to get another foot of height? Or what if I wanted to play baseball, but my pitching arm wasn't big enough?

(all) Professional sport is made up of three things; natural ability, physicality and mental- which includes ambition, desire, will etc. To augment any of these is wrong.

And to be clear AGAIN, neither myself (or Ed) are saying Messi shouldn't have been given the treatment, especially not if it was as serious a health issue as is being reported by a lot of pop up Doctor's on the site; we're saying it shouldn't have been done to make him able to play football professionally.

Agree0 Disagree0

17 Nov 2013 02:26:56
Ed as I don't know either player off the park it hard to judge them as people but on the park both world class I agree Ronaldo could go to any team in Europe but to say messi could not is just daft you sound like the English mates I got to work with and live them down here in London who think the spl has jumpers for goalposts and messi yea he ok but could he do it against stoke on a cold night in feb it drives me mad trying to reason with them so for him to be good he got to move to top team in England and batter stoke Ffs we all moan about players who are not loyal to clubs anymore and when they are we say they no ambition so scholes gerrad ad giggs must be same I tell them oh no they say they play in best leauge in the world haha you can't win
Hail Hail
Andybhoy73
P.s it all about opinions that's why we love the game {Ed007's Note - Your assuming Messi could play for any team, there is no evidence of this. Barca play to his strengths, there is no guarantee he would be successful outside of Barca. The same thing has happened to world class players for years and will continue to so. Buying Messi would be a far bigger gamble than buying Ronaldo. Even CFC make bad buys thinking it will work out. Real Madrid are not built around Ronaldo, can you say the same for Messi at Barca?
Guardiola left Barca to prove he could be a winner with other teams, Ronaldo done it when he moved to Madrid, Beckham played in England, Spain, Italy and France to prove his adaptability. Until Messi leaves the Nou Camp we will never know if he can alter his game to suit other tactics and formations.}

Agree0 Disagree0

17 Nov 2013 02:26:56
Ed as I don't know either player off the park it hard to judge them as people but on the park both world class I agree Ronaldo could go to any team in Europe but to say messi could not is just daft you sound like the English mates I got to work with and live them down here in London who think the spl has jumpers for goalposts and messi yea he ok but could he do it against stoke on a cold night in feb it drives me mad trying to reason with them so for him to be good he got to move to top team in England and batter stoke Ffs we all moan about players who are not loyal to clubs anymore and when they are we say they no ambition so scholes gerrad ad giggs must be same I tell them oh no they say they play in best leauge in the world haha you can't win
Hail Hail
Andybhoy73
P.s it all about opinions that's why we love the game {Ed007's Note - I'm not talking about cold nights in Stoke, I'm talking about going to Italy or Germany and adapting his game to play a different style of football that has been drilled into him at Barca since a young age. Gerrard has twice wanted to leave LFC to go to Chelsea and it was only the intervention of local hoodlums that changed his mind about it so you can't talk about loyalty from him.
There is a difference in loyalty and challenging yourself, even Guardiola needed a fresh challenge and in the next couple of years as more and more of his players come in to Munich we can judge if he is a great manager or was he also just stuck in the Barca rut.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Messi hasn't broke any rules, and for you to come out and say sadly ma opinion doesn't mater is quite frankly pi*h as an editor. You obviously have a soft spot for Real.
So what your saying is Messi shouldn't be allowed to play football because he got treatment for a condition he gsd.
Go tell the para Olympians who have had help over the years there cheats. Ma niece has a condition that sadly stops her growing she will get any treatment she needs to help her and if she goes on to become a sports star and people call her a cheat, a know what they will get {Ed007's Note - WTF have paralaympians got to do with anything? You're clutching at straws there. They are paralympians for a reason, they are not capable, for whatever reason of competing with able bodied people (the exact same as Messi) and best of luck to them.
If you think someone taking a substance that allows them to grow 17 whole inches in height is acceptable perhaps we should go back to the times of the USSR turning kids into sporting slaves and being severely punished for failure.
As for not breaking any rules there has never been an application submitted by any medical practitioner to administer HGH to Messi, it would be filed with the Spanish FA amongst others. And sorry to break it to you but that is illegal:

www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/sports/playmagazine/20hgh.html?_r=0

Agree0 Disagree0

So you are saying to be world class you got to move to team to team around Europe and prove yourself all over again why old barca not centre their team around messi is not as if they won nothing doing this eh I agree Ronaldo is class and a better player as year goes on to be fair to him but to say messi is not proven cause he not left barca is wrong in my humble opinion
Hail Hail
Andybhoy73 {Ed007's Note - I just feel that to prove how truly world class you are you should go and try to play in other major leagues, Playboy Ronaldo, Fat Ronaldo, Beckham, Zidane etc. Get away from their comfort zone and try new challenges. Even Guardiola went to Germany to prove that he could succeed outside his Nou Camp comfort zone. Could Messi compete against the hard, cynical, man-marking tackling of Serie A week in and week out for example?
The current Barca team is built to play to Messi's strengths, would he be as effective in another system of playing? He will leave Barca at some point, I have no doubt about that but IMO he will (for a while) struggle to adapt to new tactics, training and systems. His head does seem to go down when things aren't going his team's way and he can become anonymous in games, especially at international level.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Ed would we have heard of Messi if he has been deprived of medical treatment as a child - in the absence of a crystal ball I don't know.

Should every child be entitled to the best medical care available if they are born with a disability or medical condition - Yes

Should they not participate in Sport after the medical treatment - Why on earth not particularly if they have the basis of a remarkable talent.

Herein lies you argument, you think they should not be allowed the opportunity following medical treatment as they were not born 'Natural', they had an illness/disability. This is your opinion and you are quite entitled to it just as I am to mine.

After treatment which improved a young boys quality of life, he wants to play football and he's quite good at it - give an example of what you think him and his family should do now? What would you do if this was a relative of yours (bearing in mind this treatment in now available on the NHS in the UK)

If Messi was my Son, I would have done exactly what his Dad did. I would challenge the frame of mind of anyone who would have left their Son with a growth deficiency and wonderful football talent and sat back and did nothing!


All these opinion links do not say it is illegal to give HGH to a young person who has a deficiency, they are based on people who's body naturally produce the hormone and that is the huge difference. {Ed007's Note - In the absence of any crystal ball I will tell you that without HGH Messi would NEVER have made a career out of professional sport. If he would have why did he need the treatment, why did he need treatment to make him a size that he would never naturally have became?
HGH has made Messi the sportsman he is, there is no denying it, it is all there in black and white. If he didn't need it he wouldn't have been administered it and there wouldn't be the controversy that surrounds it.
If it was my family I would much rather see them work hard to achieve their best with whatever gifts God gave them.
It's not as if Barca done this to better Messi's life for him, they done it knowing that they alone would gain out of it, so save me the bleeding heart liberal BS about how his life was improved by Barca's good deed.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Where have I said Barca did a 'good deed' and they didn't have their own agenda?

I haven't said that, not once!

When you say by hard work, you mean people without illness and this is where your argument discriminates and the reason why I did not like the anonymous poster's argument. {Ed007's Note - You said:

Its widely known Barca paid for his treatment.

Yes Messi needed treatment to give him a better life that others get by the grace of God, why is that so bad and why can anyone be against giving a naturally gifted child the chance to play football?

Sounds like you are making it seem like a good deed to me, how nice of Barca to pay for the treatment and give this young lad a better life, nothing to do with the fact he would never have played football without it.

Please explain how my argument discriminates and against whom? Is there not an event called the Paralympics that allow less able bodied to compete against others in the same predicament? They work hard with the gifts God gave them to be the best they can, they don't rely on medications to make them a better athlete, that is people like Messi, Ben Johnson, Lance Armstrong and Carl Lewis.
If a boxer takes steroids all through his teens and has a body mass he would never actually have does he have an unfair advantage over other fighters who have worked hard in the gym and ate well etc to build themselves up? So the boxer stops taking steroids and 2 years later he is fighting for the a world title, does his years of steroid abuse not still give him an unfair advantage?
I assume all the talk of Rangers cheating and tainted titles etc will stop now as well. David Murray only gave the EBT players the chance of a better life and to play football, just like Barca did with Messi, bless their little cotton socks.
Plus the fact he was severely disabled himself must surely be worth another pat on the back, a disabled person giving all those young men such a wonderful lifestyle and chance to play football, no wonder he got a knighthood, beatification must be a certainty in the future. It wasn't cheating, it was Murray helping young men realise their dream and better their life.}

Agree0 Disagree0

I've read this discussion today and I don't know how true any of it is but I do know that a few years ago while I worked in Spain it was all over the press and not just about Messi. The Spanish media are convinced there is something in it all. I will also say that if my son who has played badminton for Scotland was beaten by someone I found out had been given this kind of treatment I would be raging. Dave

Agree0 Disagree0

Looking at all posts on this matter and your responses to me looks like you don't really like other peoples opinions .
Paraolympians have been giving treatment for conditions was only an example, u have used many examples over posts.
You chose to ignore me when a spoke of ma niece, are you telling me she isn't entitled To be all she can be. Without being branded a cheat .
If treatment is abused then am sure people would agree with you {Ed007's Note - Why should I mention your niece? I have no knowledge of her illness or situation and find the fact you brought her into it very distasteful. Although I do wish her good health and every success in her life.
You obviously don't know what you are talking about regarding the situation in Spain, sometimes it is better just to hold your counsel than embarrass yourself. There has been investigations in Spain into this matter, it's not something I am making up.

http://goo.gl/I6vMsF

http://goo.gl/EnuEBA

http://goo.gl/dfjs2w


Read up on Operacion Puerto and Operación Galgo. Oscar Pereiro, the 2006 Tour de France winner has said in an interview:

“No hay cojones (no one has the balls) to tell the truth story about Operación Puerto in this country,” Pereiro said. “Don’t even bring up Fuentes. Hopefully some day Fuentes will stand up and say everything he knows. A lot of those bags found in the raids had ‘European championship’ written on them. There isn’t a European championships in cycling. It’s all been an embarrassment.”

Dr Fuentes is on record and admitting under oath to supplying footballers with blood doping and saying, also under oath:

“If I would talk, the Spanish football team would be stripped of the 2010 World Cup.'

A Spanish judge, under the pretext of ‘privacy concerns’, has rejected prosecutor’s demand to release a list of all Fuentes’ clients.

One of Dr Fuentes methods was that specialized in blood transfusions: providing athletes with bags containing their own blood. The blood was extracted from an athlete at a moment when the blood’s hematocrit (% of red blood cells) levels were high. The blood was then stored in a plastic bag, and kept in a freezer. On any future moment when an athlete would be exhausted after days of strenuous efforts, let’s say half-way during the Tour de France, or perhaps after a World Cup semi-final that went to extra-time, hematocrit levels would have dropped, and so the blood was reinjected in the athlete’s body, giving a great boost in performance ability. The bags that were clearly marked 'European Championship' were found during raids by authorities.

Agree0 Disagree0

Drugs have been in sports for a long time. Remember the drug rules apply to professional and amateur sports. There r procedures to follow and if a sportsman needs medical treatment for a particular condition he can apply for an exemption. I think ed has said barca and messi made no such filing that we r aware of. These r not new rules in the last year or two. Maybe what would be interesting to know is how much Hgh should messi have been administered so as to avoid any serious medical complications growing up versus how much he ended up having that made him grow seventeen inches. Was it excessive and if so why? No one here is trying to deny anyone with a disability the chance for a normal life and making the most of their talents but was the treatment excessive to give him an edge?

Agree0 Disagree0

Once again Mrs E sticks her nose into a subject she knows nothin about and makes a fool of herself yet when I pulled her abut it the other week I get pelters. Read some of the sh*te this 'woman' actually writes, shes probably a guy kidding on so that she gets the attention. What her brother or the twat slevering about his niece has got anything to do with the topic God only knows. Nobody is trying to put down or belittle disabled or handicapped people, I have a sister with Downs Syndrome can I get some of that sympathy vote you were looking for? It's great the the ed let's discussions like this go on but Mrs E cut down on trying to take the moral highground, your opinion is worth no more that anyone else'sand then you disappear until the heat dies down. Just admit your a spotty wee teenager with nowt better to do than tell us how we should support our team and look for things to get on your offended high horse about. Just like most of your posts, it's boring as hell. {Ed007's Note - You did get a bit out of hand the the other week towards Mrs E and it won't be allowed to happen again. Mrs E can look after herself in a debate without resorting to some of the things you said the other week.
BUT what you need to remember is that Barca and Messi didn't do anything except give a young man a chance to have a better life and play football, just like David Murray did with all the EBT players.}

Agree0 Disagree0

Lmao ad had afew drinks the other day certainly wasn't looking for sympathy was just trying to give examples maybe didn't come out write. Apologies to ed on last post as a said was drunk fair enough if this doesn't go through.
A just think messi got treatment for a condition he had and a don't think that should stop him going on to become a sports star, would say that discriminates against him for having condition in first place. If he abused it then a would agree he dosent deserve chance. Maldini, giggs, canizares, delpiero just afew that never left there still world class.
To the last poster why give me a hard time for mentioning my niece as I tried badly to use as an example then use some1 with Down syndrome as your own example. And the abuse to mrs E ad rather read her posts than your abuse every day of the week

Agree0 Disagree0

 
Change Consent