Celtic Banter Archive October 13 2014

13 Oct 2014 17:15:32
Hi Ed is John Clark still involved with the kit / club? I cannot recall seeing him on the bench lately?

On a separate note dawning on me that NL first game is against Birmingham be interesting to see the acknowledgement (if any) with Alan Thompson

{Ed007's Note - John Clark's still there. I seen that about the Bolton/Birmingham match, someone should arrange a square-go straightener in the centre circle at half-time.}

Now that would be good pay per view. Ed, maybe you are on to something here. Half time specials where the managers have a square go and settle their differences. Sell-out crowds just for that (home and away possibly). Next up, Fat Sally and Lennie Bhoy. Mind you, Mourinho would be a regular (Ferguson, Wenger, Pardew. )

13 Oct 2014 13:36:40
To move things away from the debate about Deila for a bit of a change, I was just wondering what you all thought Lennon's legacy was at Celtic?

By that, I mean what did he do to leave Celtic in the best possible state for the future?

Was he good at bringing through youngsters from the academy, who now look to have a good future?

Did he overhaul the academy and improve it, so that better quality youngsters will be brought through in time?

Did he improve the scouting system for the academy, so that the best youngsters possible will be entering the academy?

Did he overhaul the first team scouting system, so that the best players could be found within budget?

What did he do to ensure Celtic faced the future with improved chances of success, both home and abroad?

I am asking, because as far as I can find out, he did none of those things and so I am wondering why Bolton, who are in desperate straits anyway, have taken a chance on him?

13 Oct 2014 14:36:06
ED001 I always liked Lennon, what he had to endure was more than any other person with little or no help from the SFA or the authorities.
After Mowbray, he did for a while "bring back the thunder" and got we Celtic fans excited again. He also gave us some good memories in the Champions League.
His faults were being too loyal to certain underperforming players and not bringing through enough young talented players.
What I liked about Neil was that he showed his passion and love for the club.
Sadly under Delia the team has lost all it's passion and Delia himself is like a wet dishtowel on matchdays. He does not interact with us the supporters and in my eyes at least, seems to look down on the Celtic fans.
Lennon was one of us and his legacy has more pluses than minuses, Delia has only minuses so far in his reign.

{Ed001's Note - so name one of his plusses? Because what you have said so far is not a plus for the future of the club at all. Basically you have just said you liked him and he kept underperforming players instead of giving kids a chance. It seems more negative than positive, yet you are having a go at Deila for a lot less. Who cares about a manager being good with the fans? Surely it is better that they play good football, bring the club success and work at integrating young players from the academy into the first team? The only thing Lennon did out of that was the success, and then it is hardly a big achievement with no Rangers. He only got a couple of shock results in Europe, but never was it felt like he could build on them. I really don't understand this Celtic love-in with the man. He was a turd at Crewe, even more of a turd of a man at Leicester and never changed while at Celtic. If he hadn't been a Northern Irish Catholic no one at the club would have any time for him. Strachan was twice the manager and a billion times the man, yet was forced out of the club! I just don't get it.}

13 Oct 2014 14:42:58
Hi,Ed 01, I am 1 of lennons biggest supporters but if iam really honest, he done none of the above, and had no real competition which makes his time in charge a unsuccessful 1, while he won 3 leagues, and qualified for cl he didn't push on on to the next level, although I still maintain lawell and park should bear some responsibility. Bolton job is a poisoned chalice, and while I wish him well, I don't think he will make it to the end of the season.

{Ed001's Note - I have to agree, Bolton is a hiding to nothing, but then I suppose he can't fail because of that. If things go bad it is not going to be his fault and if he can get a good run of results he will be lauded for them. Sometimes the poison chalices are the best kinds, so long as everyone knows what it is like before you take the job.}

13 Oct 2014 14:55:42
Ed 001 I agree completely. Lennon was tactically inept,didnt play youth and our players who were sent on loan were deamed unfit, strachan for me was our best manager since Stein

13 Oct 2014 14:56:03
ED001 I do not like Delia but I would never use the language you use about Lennon, OK I get you do not like him as a man or as a manager but please be professional, you are simply going down the same sad path as all those bigots who targeted him simply for being a Roman Catholic. Maybe you have more of an insight into his life outside football than us the fans and can justify your name calling but it is sad to read.
Lennon gave this Celtic fan exiting european nights and I thank him for that.

{Ed001's Note - professional? Don't be so silly. I am giving an opinion, a personal opinion of a man I have had the misfortune to have had to deal with a number of times. It is nothing to do with bigotry, you are the one assuming it is to do with that, which suggests you are the one with the bigotry issue. He was clearly given a softer ride because of his beliefs, which is understandable to a degree, but is no excuse for you now to jump on Deila because he doesn't have the same stick used against him. To suggest I am going down the same path is laughable and just shows why you support him even now, because you are bigoted towards him. It is nothing to do with his beliefs and everything to do with the nasty snarling person that he is. I told Ed007 exactly what he would be like as a manager, how it would lead to all sorts of issues because he would make things worse with his actions. He can't help himself. He will blame it on his illness or his beliefs, when in fact it is down to him that he has issues. If he showed respect to others, he would still have had some issues with a few people, I accept that, but it would have been nothing like the issues he ended up with. He got away with it in England because he was a no mark, but in Scotland he was at one of the biggest clubs and a major star, you have to behave appropriately, which he never did.}

Hi Ed, a think the academy etc is no longer a part of a managers remit and a think Celtic have let themselves down in that department but they seem to be have better facs than any other club in Scotland a really wanted to come on on Saturday and ask 007 how Robertson managed to be discarded on height he can't be that much bigger than Izzy on the face of it would appear to have let go to retain one of the Twardzzik? Twins!

The only true measure of a manager (even Strachan said this!) was to leave the place better than he found it to which I think NL gets a plus!

As for the "Luv-in"" a can think of no other player in Scotland (even Mo Johnston!) who has endured what NL there was a fantastic article in the Telegraph a believe by Kevin McKenna that tried to dissect what NL endured, a have seen a few of our own fans "jump down the throats" of Griffiths, Biton and now Tonev at what they are supposed to have or have not done said etc. yet everyone thinks NL "enticed" it why because he is an "catholic irish ginger"? let's take stock here

1) Death threats both here and in NI
2) Parents enduring "matchstick artwork" of him hanging!
3) The "bile" and there "bile" song of "hanging him high"
4) A road rage incident that seen him pushed off the road
5 Subject to a crude Nail Bomb device)
6) Knocked unconscious by TWO men in an affluent part of Glasgow near his home
7) Attacked whilst working on a touchline (hearts game) under the microscope of multi cameras only for the individual to be found NOT GUILTY (still wrankles me that 1)!

He served for the best part of thirteen years while suffering from depression we loved him because he choose not to "bow down" even if any one on here doesn't like him a would rather they just said THANKS for enduring what you did for us!
But a will agree with you all day long about WGS if and it is a BIG if RD doesn't make it he should be the first port of call we make!

A never understand why we never took to him either in his first autobiography he spoke about how he was gutted about the Celtic fan that ran on the park and attacked him as although he was a Hibs fan he had a soft spot for Celtic!

Maybe Scotland just has a problem with "wee gingermen"? atvb jb7

{Ed007's Note - I think you need to reread what Ed001 said in the OP, you're prattling on about stuff that has nothing to do with football. Try and stick to the relevant topic.}

13 Oct 2014 15:37:11
Ed 01, mayb u just rubbed him up the wrone way, having met lenny the legend he never came across as the guy your describing. :-D

{Ed001's Note - maybe.}

I think Lennon sees this as a can't lose situation - Bolton are in a state and seem to be going down anyway, Lennon digs them out and he's the saviour. With the questions:-

By that, I mean what did he do to leave Celtic in the best possible state for the future - Celtic need investment for this and Neil Lennon watched as all his stars were sold. Celtic just seem to be in a constant state of rebuilding.

Was he good at bringing through youngsters from the academy, who now look to have a good future - I think he did give them a chance but some are just not good enough and I stand by this comment.

Did he overhaul the academy and improve it, so that better quality youngsters will be brought through in time - Did he have enough time for this and if he did, would we be seeing the rewards just yet?

Did he improve the scouting system for the academy, so that the best youngsters possible will be entering the academy - I think this would take time as well if he did.

Did he overhaul the first team scouting system, so that the best players could be found within budget - he played Wanyama and gave him the big stage of the Champions League, the Club figures and player sales say Yes to this question and Bolton need cash. Different debate with fans.

What did he do to ensure Celtic faced the future with improved chances of success, both home and abroad - for abroad we need investment. At home, we have the highest wage bill by a mile and he won the league last season with 1 defeat?


Neil Lennon for me is still a relatively inexperienced Manager, he was one of the youngest in our league and guys like Ronny Delia are more experienced. I know its scoffed at by some fans (for whatever reason only known to themselves) but getting to the Champions League last 16 was fantastic and I loved every minute of that.

A player like Charlie Mulgrew is never going to be the best by a long shot but Lennon turned him into an International player who is liked by Strachan as well. Fraser Forster would still be warming Newcastle 's bench. This is what he can do I suppose.

He does like the possession, passing game (can adapt when in CL), trusts his players and they will play for him.

On the downside, he did let them become complacent and was maybe slow to make changes when needed. Less said about his temper the better.

Well a touched upon the academy, and a touched upon the youngsters, a touched upon leaving it in a better place than he found it!

Then by his FIRST response a touched upon WGS and a touched upon the "love-in"

And by the way Hayley McQueen is on ssn in a wee black number and a wouldn't mind touching her up either but if you have first dibs!? a will settle for Katie Abdo or Rachel Wyse :-)

{Ed007's Note - Out of the seven points you listed not one of them has anything to do with NL's managerial ability, what has comparing him to NL got to do with his managerial ability, same with his suffering from depression. Very little of your post talks about his actual managerial ability which was the point of Ed001's OP.}

A don't think NL was responsible for the academy hence the reason HIS staff went with him to Bolton and not the academy

A think Andrew Robertson WILL be a major success shame it is not to benefit Celtic a think that is neglect a think this is Chris McCart's fault not NL!

Regarding Andrew Robertson would he have been the success he has been if he stayed at celtic or was being dropped by celtic what has driven him to be the success he is so far?

NL I think gave the best young players a chance, Forrest, O'Connel, Fisher, Henderson. From what iv seen so far (and I know it's early days) but Ronny doesn't seem keen on giving youth a chance. Only really O'Connel occasionally. Forrest isn't really an academy player any more he's an international winger, and Henderson got more of a chance under Lennon than with Ronny, when struggling at right back Lennon introduced and played fisher, when struggling at right back now Ronny chooses to go with a bomb scare center half at before the young boy. Fisher and Henderson must be laughing at the Ronny encourages youths quotes that we read when he first arrived. Markie

{Ed007's Note - Darnell Fisher only started light training a week or so ago after a injury lay off and he's played a couple of matches for the Development Squad, Ambrose plays at RB for Nigeria and Neil Lennon also played him there at times as well.}

Aye fisher was on the bench 2 weeks ago so I would imagine he was training for 2/3 weeks before that to make the bench, and still hasn't had a sniff. I don't recall Ambrose playing right back under Lennon but I'll take your word for it Ed, it must have been at a time when all 3 right backs were out as Lennon public said during the World Cup that Ambrose 'can't play right back', it's all splitting hairs though the point I was making is that so far the new manager either doesn't like giving youth a chance or is unimpressed with the youths we have, which if it's the latter is not good when you see how poor all the new loans/signings have been. Markie

{Ed007's Note - Ambrose played at RB against St Johnstone the night Nir Biton made his debut and other times when needed to.}

13 Oct 2014 22:38:56
Markie for him being the manager for 4 years how can you say he gave the best young players a chance lol he only played fisher if there was injuries o'connel I can't remember ever really playing under lennon, henderson only featured after the league was won and forrest is never out the treatment room. 4 youth players being used in 4 years is atrocious tbh. He constantly stuck with his usual players even when the football being played was shocking. Our best 2 performaces last season was hearts and motherwell away and what did lennon do the next game? he made changes and went back to his usual starters and formation and we played rank rotten again. That sums up his management skills for me totally clueless, on twitter arguing with sevco fans, promoting his clothing line like some littlewoods catalogue model which was totally embarrassing for a celtic manager to be doing and imo he'll be found out down in england. So annoying how people think he was some kind of saviour

I liked NL for the most part. However he did stick with too many favourites which is a negative. He had the opportunity to field more youngsters when the Zombies crawled back to their grave and he did not give enough of them a chance. He gave us some good European nights which we did not have for a while and some unexpected results. I often wonder if the mediocre players he brought in were the result of the board not willing to take that next step up and speculate some more cash. As I said, I enjoyed his tenure for the most part but I think we were going backwards and, to his credit, I think he realised his time was up. Just my comments.

I agree guys, I also think Lennon could have given more young players a chance, what I said was he gave the best few a chance and I named them and he did, but he could have given more a chance especially when he was desperately chasing 100 points and shamelessly ignoring them. But the point I was making is that Ronny was heralded as a guy who would change that, a guy that would use the young players.he isn't! And I was using lennons poor record to highlight how much worse the current managers record is. Especially when this was one of his remits, when the signings are so rank, when there has been so many injurys, and when the results and performances have been so poor. If he won't play young players now when is he? I didn't make the post clear sorry, it wasn't meant to praise NLs record with youth but to use as an example. Maybe so early in his tenure I'm being unfair on Ronny but the early signs don't look good. Markie

Guys – can you give me the names of the players you think Neil Lennon or any recent Celtic Manager has not played from the youth team that you think should have been played?

Cheers

14 Oct 2014 12:23:20
Mrs E for ma sins a don't know all their names cause I don't see enough of them but the under 19's won the double i'm sure 4 years in a row? so surely the majority of them should have been given a chance instead of a couple. Why have these young players dominate at their level if they are never going to be given a chance. Tbh if I was a 13/14 year old the now and being chased by all the spfl teams celtic is the last 1 i'd sign for purely on the evidence that the youngsters never get a chance as ed has said many times something seems to go wrong with us between age 19-21 i'm sure he said which is true these bhoys win everything in their own league and cups but we never see them progress any further they end up getting shipped out look at young robertson now at hull there is something wrong with our coaches if they couldn't see he was a talent and he was let go

With Robertson he would have left when he was 15/16 but you never know if Celtic would have shown interest again when he was at Queens Park, the boy probably did make the best move with Dundee Utd to be fair.

I do not know what happens with our Youth, they have dominated in Scotland for the past few seasons and took part in the Next Gen/Champions League with the best youth teams in Europe. I haven’t seen anything great about the youth players at all, they cannot seem to make to step up and can see why they are not played – they have done nothing to deserve it. They look like very average Scottish players.

I think without a doubt Ronny should be playing Henderson Mrs E as iv mentioned before. Made his debut and played the tail end of last season and looked the part. And he was only 17! I personally think he is the best we have coming through, he has been tryed and proved he could cut it, and I also think it's a possition we are very weak in. Other than broony I don't rate any of our other center mids and we rely to much on the guy. Give the young lad a run in the team beside Brown Ronny! Markie