Celtic Banter Archive October 12 2014

 

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12 Oct 2014 22:22:16
What direction to Celtic go in? Is it continual down-sizing with less monies invested in the team, ever lower season ticket book prices, reducing revenue from merchandise sales and a "race to the bottom" that can still achieve a "profit"?. OR do we change the trajectory, invest a little, go on a PR offensive, raise the quality bar, increase the price to watch the product, and re-vitalise all non-football operations to further boost the match day experience and the over-arching experience of being a "Celtic fan"?

The problem is not so much what direction the PLC should go in. They could play around all day with excel spreadsheets and scrutinise the pluses and the minuses of both strategies, but the bigger question is this.

EVEN IF we opened up a little and upped the ante and went for 2nd tier B list category players "with considerable/proven potential" and spent £30m on 6 players each costing £5,000,000 and allowed weekly salaries to encroach upon say £35,000 per week, would we be able (even at that) to ATTRACT the B list players with A-list potential that would transform the team?

Could we convince the next best, youngest brightest prospects from Slovenia, or Switzerland or Bosnia or Croatia or Poland or the Czech Republic to ply their trade North of the Border? Would they look at the competition and the sell-on possibilities (IE Celtic are as good a platform as any?) and then look at the lucrative contracts on offer and think "okay, the money is FAB (tick) but the league is poor (cross) but there's the high possibility of European high profile football (tick), and the stadium is immense and the match day experience is epic (tick). That is the $million question.

You can want to go down a particular road and still find hurdles in your way.

I think Celtic fans would "buy in" if there was the real prospect of a higher/better standard. I think the Board would be surprised at how far we would go if we felt the Board's vision matched our own for our great Club.

I will always support Celtic but my interest is waning because the core of the club, or should I say "the part" that evokes my week to week interest is so pitifully poor. Celtic is made up of many (many) facets. The fans. The history and past glories. The mystique. The magic. The coming together in "celebration". Before, during and after, the match is a great leveller where there is no hierarchy, no class variance, no embarrassment. just Celtic. The colour, the fanfare, the "not knowing what to expect", the "joy". and knowing that whatever it is you're enduring 1,000,000 around the globe are feeling it too.

This all COMES TO LIFE when the team on the park fills us with pride and hope. When Larson, or McStay, or Collins, or Moravcik, or McGrain, or McNeill become extensions of us; our better sides, our characters.

The PROBLEM for me at the moment isn't so much that I am feeling diminished as a Celtic fan, but that the team on the park and the management off it (and the Board above it) leaves me feeling numb. Cold. Detached. It is difficult to put my finger on it.

How do you get behind a team that means SO MUCH to so many when a good number of players are actually winning and losing and learning and growing for the benefit of their parent clubs? When signed players leave us publicly humiliated, knowing that we are a last resort. When starting player's form is so miserable that we wonder what level of competition lies behind them. When mistakes happen and happen again. Where hunger, pride, passion and the old Celtic ways are lost in a perennial fog of mundaneness. Do you recall the rapid, explosive Celtic starts to home matches; a whirlwind that would stop opponents in their tracks and leave them out cold after 15 minutes. What happened?

What has happened to our Celtic? Where did the magic go?

How do we get it back.

We don't need to win everything. We are not currently asking for very much. Just a reason to be hopeful once again. To be cheerful as we set out merrily on our way to Celtic Park. To build. To dream.

How do we get there .

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Your typist no get a Sunday aff paradise? Or are you a slave driving Tory after all? atvb jb7

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That is the question, where do we go from here?, what is the difference between us and shuper ally, buying expensive supposedly superior players so we can win the league, cups or in our case do something in europe, celtic should be different, Iwould rather we brought in young irish, scots players, who had a bit of potential, and we had a manager who could recognise the potential in a footballing sense rather a fitness sense, this might mean a few lean years but its rewarding watching a great team developing but not for the we only sing when we're winning crowd.

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{Ed007's Note - Between 2001-2007 not ONE single Stromsgodset player earned a youth cap for Norway. However, in just 5 years under Deila, the figure reached 179, that's works out at an average of 36 per season. Pity RD was so hung up on diet and fitness or it could have reached 200, shame on him! I'm sure the Norwegian FA were furious about it.}

Thats not what I mean Ed, I was'nt having a dig at RD, in that way, if that happened at stromsgodset, then that means he must have been able to see the potential in a footballing sense, fitness and diet should be the same for the 'lesser' talented footballers as well as the ones that will turn out good, I think its hard to teach an old dog new tricks, there's no point in trying to change older players who already have bad habits, he should use them to the best of their abbilities, and concentrate on instilling good practises in the younger ones, I have'nt looked at any of the Norwegian statistics, but would be interesting to see how many of those players went onto play senior football

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{Ed007's Note - Hahaha well you can go and look that up!! You're spot on about teaching old dogs new tricks, spot on! I'd have a wager with anyone that players like van Dijk, Denayer, Guidetti, Tonev, Wakaso, Izzy etc won't see any major changes to their diet and lifestyle, they will have been taught about that all their careers, since their youth teams. Guys like Scott Brown who is basically a machine anytime he enters a pitch for training or a match will already have been following a strict fitness regime IMO. All RD is trying to do is improve the fitness, stamina and conditioning of players, with my hand on heart I can't get my head round why people have a problem with that and are emphasising it so much. People were saying JC was a good appointment because he would make sure players were working hard and getting fitter now it's the reason for every mistake!
It's only one part of the jigsaw, is it RD's fault that Stokes can't cross from a corner? How many chances did we miss against Accies, is that RD's fault? He's not out there kicking the ball. Remember against Zagreb we had THREE players chasing one while they had a man free in the middle, do you think RD told 3 players to run after one?
Players like Jinky, Bertie Auld, George Best, Kenny Dalglish, Bryan Robson, the list is endless, wouldn't have made it to where they did in today's game unless they embraced modern training methods and lifestyle choices, times have changed. All RD is trying to do is improve the team, make sure they are at their physical peak and bring us into the modern area of training and coaching, our methods were archaic to say the least. We might not be able to compete with Euro big guns when it comes to ability but we should be fit enough to last the 90 mins against them, fitness is all about hard work, Izaguirre might not be able to mark Ronaldo out a game for 90 mins but he should be physically fit enough to keep breathing down his neck for the duration of the game, people looked at the recent Barca teams and their technique but to play at that level and pace you need to be as fit as you can be.
How many times in recent years have we ended up drawing games or losing them because after 70/75 mins our players are knackered and blowing out their ar$es, it was even plain to see against Zagreb last week.
We should be the fittest, the strongest in body and mind and the most athletic team in Scotland bar none, it's a huge blunder that we aren't, and for anyone who has done any training, you'll know it's hard to lose weight and get fit quickly. It's not just physical fitness and toughness RD wants to improve, it's mental as well.}

13 Oct 2014 01:44:54
Ed, your the boss when it's comes to stats, did I not read once, use have a full database/library. :-D

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{Ed007's Note - 178 went on to play professional football and one became a multi-millionaire selling diet and nutrition information to sports clubs all over the world whild and working with UEFA, NASA, the CIA and SETI regarding human conditioning, the human bodies physical limits and what kind of diet alien visitors would need to survive on earth and vice versa if humans ever start terraforming foreign planets.
Do you know RD has said smoking and alcohol are bad for you? How miles out can one guy be, what crazy idea could he come up with next.. Glasses help if you have poor eyesight!
Did you know that some footballers injury problems have been traced back to dental problems?}

13 Oct 2014 02:43:25
Ed, that's abit of a crazy response, Suppose that's wot happens when your editing the conspiracy pages aswell. Lol

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{Ed007's Note - The part about the dental stuff is 100% true. RvP and I'm sure Jamie Redknapp were a couple of players that used it, it's tied into their wisdom teeth, no BS mate, give it a Google.}

Some really interesting comments and thought provoking. I am looking at RD in a slightly different light. Change is not always liked or understood and maybe a few of us are being stubborn with regards to what we are seeing at present and what the man is trying to do.

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REPLY TO ABOVE POST, ed, spot on, not all ronnys fault stokes can't cross a ball, 99 100 we would have beaten accies on that day, I agree with ronny we are getting better there's no doubt, as to fittness & diet I agree with RD, ALSO improve mental toughness! RD defo desreves time pundits can say all they want that's why there's pundits & not managers, I still believe he will turn out to be a good manager for us, if players don't buy into his ideas let them go, KEEP THE FAITH,

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Ed to embrace your response a think a have an alternative answer when RD spoke about improving them at the beginning by "3 or 4%" through fitness a think this is where the "crossroads" the players defiance stance (for want of a better explanative) it is the SACRAFICE involved in getting to that dominator

You indicated you used to box what would you have sacrificed to gain another 3 or 4 %? the point am trying to make in gaining 3 or 4 % is it worth the sacrifice? everybody will have a different attitude / barometer to that equation mate

A think the swimmer Michael Phelps is a great example he said that in the mind he knew he had everyone beat in the race before it started because he even trained on CHRISTMAS DAY! and he knew that no one else had gone to that length so it give him an edge and psychological advantage!

But everyone has there on stance and in a team setting can be harder to implement atvb jb7

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{Ed007's Note - As a highly paid professional athlete of course it's worth any sacrifice to better yourself simply because every professional sportsman should strive to be the very best they can be. I don't know what point you're trying to make.}

Point a was getting at Ed and maybe a should have made a bit clearer is "3 or 4 %" whilst it is improving, what is the sacrifice involved in getting to that dominator? ( If it is fizzy drinks, change of diet, running harder, weight loss, strict regime a could go on!) at what point do you counter measure the "little gain" and ask yourself ( as a former boxer ) is it worth that to gain as little as "3 or 4%!) surely there is a counter balance?

In an individual basis such as boxing, swimming you as individual get found out or left adrift/wanting but in a "team setting" all it takes is for someone to "do the sums" and down tools mate IMO hope a cleared that up

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13 Oct 2014 16:37:22
Ed very good points as alwYs. Just thinking however, have Stromsgodset ever qualified for CL group stages? Where did Stromsgodset finish up last season in their league? Did they win any cups last season? I am sure they all are the right things and were super fit.

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{Ed007's Note - Stromsgodset won their first title in 43 years last season under Delia, Johnny, and he also won the Norwegian Cup in 2010, Stromsgodset winning the league is the equivalent of Kilmarnock winning the SPFL, remember he was up against teams like Brann, Lillestrom,Molde and Rosenborg who are all seen as 'bigger', richer and more popular clubs than Stromsgodset and also note Deila spent very little money on player acquisitions.
In his two cracks at the EL he hasn't got past the Third Qualifying Round but to be fair in 2011/12 they were drawn against Atletico Madrid who ended up in our group after the Sion debacle. Last season they beat the Hungarian side Debreceni VSC 5-2 on aggregate before losing in the Third Qualifying Round to the Czech side FK Jablonec by the same scoreline.
Have a read at this and this,two articles from from the same guy writing about Deila in 2012 and then in 2014.}

12 Oct 2014 19:08:01
Regarding the poll about Forrest, sadly I think he has no future at Celtic, how many games has he missed in last 3 seasons with injuries. Is he so fragile, or is his training routine all wrong, Mr "perfect fitness routines" Delia should be all over this. Has Forrest being overdoing the chips and coke?

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Was there something about Forrest getting in trouble in a nightclub a while back. I don't know if it was ever resolved?
If it hasn't could this have affected his form and fitness?
Stokes and Griffiths are in trouble with the police, and their form has dipped badly.

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{Ed007's Note - The last official information on Forrest's case I can see is that he was:

'subject to a report to the procurator fiscal in connection with allegations of public indecency and sexual assault in Prestwick between 11pm on Saturday 9 November and 2am on Sunday 10 November.'

Going with what I know I'd reckon any trial or hearing will be approx a year after the event. As for his injury he is out with a a thigh/hamstring picked up in the 6-1 Dundee Utd match and he is continuing to work with a neurologist in a bid to resolve his long-standing sciatica problem.}

12 Oct 2014 19:06:01
Liked your Subbuteo piece ed, but that was a far too one-dimensional viewpoint on the past-time.
Whilst there were established competitions for the flickers, who seemed to be expert middle aged fellas with a lifetime experience, many other kids' interest in this sport-substitute quickly waned.
Rather like train sets, who had their young would-be engineers/ mechanics / architects / designers etc as participants, Subbuteo also sold stadium extras that could broaden the mind. You could get terraces, stands, and other extras. Of course, the terraces went behind the goals. Saving your paper delivery money over a couple of months, and there was the prospect of buying a corner in-fill to your ground.
I don't recall Subbuteo selling toy spectators, but the stadium could be easily populated by toy soldiers, 'borrowing' train set figures and the like. A group of kids in cooperation would be better ; more resources and sharing of collections. A ground owned by, and run for, the fans!
The adventurous owners had a double or triple terrace end that recalled of trips to, or tv highlights of, the Kop or (pah) OT, Goodison Park or Maine Road.
Sadly I don't know of any kids who became billionaires and fulfilled this dream but that is not to deny the possibilities of Subbuteo.
The only down-side was that, by the time you'd saved enough to expand the ground and its fans, the lure of life had moved you on.
Perhaps a lesson that should be remembered by owners and television companies who take for granted their supporters
money?
When is Part II of Subbuteo due?

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You could buy crowds for the stands, I remember seeing them in a model shop many years ago. Actually it was a stand that had a crowd in it, if I remember rightly, rather than separate crowds to place in the empty stands.

I remember getting given Subboteo as a kid, I only played it once as we had to lay it out on the floor and there were only 3 players left intact after the first match!

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12 Oct 2014 17:12:31
Not sure if this is the place to post this, but on the internationals. I NEVER COULD CARE LESS about Scotland's results. I was/am firmly of the opinion that the SFA are part of the 'Establishment'. Anyways, the referendum has softened my view. I now am a member of the SNP and love Celtic as much as I ever have. I NOW FEEL THAT I WANT SCOTLAND TO DO WELL. The 'YES' campain in my humble opion showed up the no/unionist voters for what they are. Celtic forever! Thoughts please? (ed feel free to delete if you think this is irrelevant).

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{Ed007's Note - I know a lot of people who have taken a interest in the Scotland team since the independence stuff, Davie, it's stirred up their sense of patriotism and fair play to them. I just hope WGS can give them something to cheer but they've all been warned if I ever see them in a C U Jimmy hat they're getting a belt in the mouth.}

Cheers Ed007. you will NEVER catch me in one of those!

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{Ed007's Note - You better not - remember you're a Hamilton Bhoy!}

So suddenly because you voted yes, you now have a passion for national team?

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12 Oct 2014 19:53:26
I hate to complement former managers of Deadco but I haven't been interested in the national team since Walter Smith and then McLeish were in charge. WGS had restored a bit of pride with a very poor standard of player.

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DN30 I never mentioned the word 'passion'. I just said that recent events have got me thinking. I AM A CELTIC MAN, not Irish, and I'm just looking at the possibility of reconnecting with Scotland.

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12 Oct 2014 16:57:02
Hi Ed, Now that NL is the manager @ Bolton who do you see him coming back for (if any)!

He can get Kayal on a Bosman in Jan and a know he was on there radar before under Coyle any thoughts?

ATVB JB7

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{Ed007's Note - I can't see him coming for anyone for reasons I've explained elsewhere, Jamie. I wouldn't mind him coming back for Mulgrew, Forrest, Stokes, Boerrigter, Griffiths, Rogic, Balde, Pukki and possibly Ambrose and Kayal. Throw in Commons as well if we can't get his contract sorted.
I also wouldn't mind drinking Hayley McQueen's dirty bath water but sadly that's never going to happen either - I have asked her!}

Could see Kayal and maybe Mulgrew to if he falls out the picture but a never knew Bolton were in such bad shape tbh

Ass for Hayley McQueen you just need to get back on to her bud and offer to share a shower instead ;-)

There a few of they ssn presenters if a had a chance with it would be more than there shoes that would be BUCKLED! :-)

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12 Oct 2014 16:03:04
Leaves Scottish champions n European regulars Celtic due to budget restraints, joins Bolton who sit bottom of the Championship n only spent £310k on 12 players in the summer lol. Best of luck wi that one NL! Celtic to the core?

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{Ed007's Note - As well as Bolton's problems that I mentioned last night their last accounts from December 2013 showed they were £168.3 million in debt and they were forced to use their parachute payments from the PL to pay their overdraft facility with Barclay's bank. Future accounts are expected to show even worse results for this year. I wish NL well but I think he has made a poor choice and I'll be astounded if he is still Bolton manager in a years time, the club's in a mess and if a transfer embargo is enforced in January they could easily find themselves facing a serious relegation battle.
If I was him I would have kept working as a pundit until the summer to see what jobs became available when he would have time, and money, to stamp his own ideas on the club.
As a side note Roy Keane took over Sunderland when they were second bottom of the Championship and went onto won the title that same season... So it is possible that NL could do the same at Bolton.}

@hamiltonbhoy I've never bought into this budget constraints excuse for lennon leaving club and his appointment at bolton has proved my theory to be plausible.

I'm Praying that he comes in for ambrose

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12 Oct 2014 15:27:25
A posted the other day for all my fellow boys and ghirls to get there money on Lennon next Bolton manager kerchingjust collected my 6 ton hail hail

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12 Oct 2014 16:50:46
No bad 60 notes into the bucky slush fund. Not as much as you but a wee lift none the less! As for NL taking this job, not much ambition shown but perfect tune up role to establish his credentials in eng gur lund. money talks and that lol good luck lenny, dolf and GP

HH

ShottsBhoy

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12 Oct 2014 14:46:46
Going to talk a wee bit about the internationals.
Decent result for Scotland (no more) against a poor Georgia.
Good result for Republic against Luxemburg (did what it said on the tin- score a barrow load of goals) Can we honestly see this Scotland team score 7? doubt it.
Great result for Poland against Germany, but it puts into perspective Scotland's result in Germany they are poor just now and decent teams take points off them.
But in some ways it might be the right time to play Poland as watching the match all the Polish players were dead on their feet with the effort they put in, Scotland must at least come back with a draw at worst or our euro campaign is over for another 4 years.

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I think Poland's win last night will be very damaging to Scotland, if as you say they don't get a result on Tuesday.
I expected Scotland, the Republic, and Poland to be fighting to take points off each other, I didn't think any of them were capable of beating Germany.
After this shock you would expect the Germans to refocus and win their remaining games,
Poland have a bonus 3 points which may make them difficult to catch.

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12 Oct 2014 17:28:24
Just back from dublin, internationals is a nice wi break from celtic, while we scored 7 ,should have been more, as goals in this group could play a big part.Ed Were Does your loyalties lie, scotland/eire, just wondering???

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{Ed007's Note - Neither really, I don't have much interest in international football but I'll be cheering on Eire simply because of the Roy Keane factor. That was a cracking result yesterday and I've mentioned before that I think James McClean could definitely do a job for us, any time I've seen him for Eire or at domestic level he's impressed me and he'd jump at the chance to join us.
Can you see Pedro sanctioning that move? (sweat)

12 Oct 2014 18:59:28
Ed, its a move which would meet ar signing policy, young/ and sell on value, plus a bonus being a fellow DERRY lad, he gets himself into a lot of stupid trouble aswell,

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