Celtic Banter Archive January 11 2015

11 Jan 2015 18:04:07
Just watched the Southampton game, they were the better team IMO a was wondering if Wanyama & Forster was there 2 biggest signings?

Factor in a Ledley for there midfielder, Wilson for there CH, Hooper for there Pelle, Lustig for there Full back there not much difference again IMO

If we were in a different setting there is no way a team like Southampton could prize away our best players, sadly it makes us think if we kept them together how good we could we got? Also if we do "unearth rough diamonds" like VVD for example and we are only going to get keep them for say two seasons?

What chance of continuity and team building are we going to get?

Unless replacements are adequate jamie there is no chance. No chance. Players leaving for 'greener' pastures cannot be helped, we cannot change the climate we are in. That's why it's imperative when we sell a player for 3, 4, 5-fold what they cost, that little bit more is invested. We can't continually be a work in progress. RD pulled a heart string this week though when he said, to paraphrase, "we will never have the best players, but we can have the best team".

In the words of Brad Pitt as Billy Beane - "It's a process".

In my opinion we just have to except that if we find Quality players we will have to sell them
if we don't no new quality players will want to come to us as most see us as stepping stone for better leagues so it benefits both party's we get the money they get the move they really wanted, That is life in Scottish Football unfortunately

Hi Jim a seen that RD quote to be honest a did not really know how interpret it? A think you are right by the way! Leads me to think how far we are away from beating a CL AC Milan, Juventus or Barca @ a full parkhead and the whole of Europe sits up and says " Celtic or Parkhead is special " & no one can argue because of there status in the game?

Anyway I like your quote bud beats mine hands down Susan Boyle " to dream the dream " & whisper it but even she is "Celtic Minded" atvb jb7

We've been getting further away jamie, in terms of players. For a while now we've been one step forwards and two back or sideways. I just hope RD gets a fair crack of the whip from the board. WGS was able to bring in valuable pedigree players like JVoH, Hinkel, Boruc. Not that they were so good but even Gravesen and Jarosik. Decent pedigree. NL even had a bit cash to spend but I think the demise of Rangers sadly somehow started the demise of our own ambitions. Bemuses me, but it did.

Anyways, I think under RD we could be at the start of a huge leap forward. But he needs the backing. My biggest problem is still with our transfer policy. Not our manager.

Anyways jamie mate that quote. Have a watch of Moneyball if you haven't seen it. Or a quick look at the work of Bill James. Sure I remember NL talking of getting a book off DD by Bill James. A while later we see Jim McGuiness come in. His influence, as that of RD, who Ed enlightened me greatly of the work he did with youths at Stromsgodset - takes a few years to take shape. With a little patience, and the right attitude from the board. We may have a side mixed with fine young Celts and European pedigree. Maybe, just maybe.

Thanks for that JT (y)

15 Jan 2015 01:13:24
It took him 5 seasons to win the league with Strømsgodset but he started to use youth players pretty much every game. Gustav Wikheim was 17 when he got his debut, Iver Fossum was 16 and Martin Ødegaard 13. All three regulars for Godset now, two years later.
Iver Fossum was even runners up for the youth of the year award in Norway 2014, but is forgotten in the Martin Ødegaard blackout. hehe

As you say building youth setup takes time and hopefully he will be given the time he needs.
If you don't have the money to buy the players at the standards that you need, why not use money to secure the future?

Deila bought Johansen for 100.000 punds ans sold him for 2.5 mill, Konradsen for 200.000 pounds and sold him for 1,5 mill and can generate the biggest sale of any norwegian player ever in Martin Ødegaard.
I bet you see Wikheim and Fossum in bigger clubs to real soon.

11 Jan 2015 14:35:21
While I hope Delia is a success some of his selections and lack of them give me great concern, mainly in the strike department. His three favourites and in my opinion he has shown nothing other than clear favouritism that is completely unjustified, Stokes, Guidetti and Sceptovic would be outscored by Griffiths if he were given a regular starting slot as this threesome have been. Despite being played out on the wing ( early season ) and only having sub time he still is, in my opinion by a long way Celtics most dangerous attacker . Come on Delia just be FAIR and give him the same amount of games as your favoured three diddys then we will see how the club scoring charts look at the end of the season.

It's all opinion isn't it really. I think "diddy" is very harsh on Guidetti, he's only going through a lull. It's even more harsh on Scepovic. And RD HAS done the right thing by giving Scepovic a game against Kilmarnock. Scepovic scored in a game he was given little service too so I expect RD to continue Stefans run as the main striker. If he does, no complaints about selection in that department. Then if Scepovic goes a few without scoring Griffiths should get a chance. Or maybe just go back to Guidetti. RD sees them in training every day.

I think if any of them deserve to be labelled a diddy it would be griffiths.

Nearly said that myself edinbhoy! By the definition of the word anyway.

The calibre of all the strikers at the moment at Celtic are well below the 25/30 goal men we are used to at our famous club - and I don't include Commons in that as he rarely plays.

Not sure mind Jungle. JG is on 15 halfway through and that's without playing in Europe. Then again he ain't actually our player yet. Scepovic is good in my eyes but as second choice in a one up top system he's not realistically going to hit 30.

Actually scrap that totally misread his stats there! Thought it seemed a bit better than what i've seen! Anyway he's shown in a better league he can score consistently. (Eating humble pie smiley)

11 Jan 2015 12:39:39
I've noticed a lot of people defending rd by using the European argument. Now Imo that is an unfair comparison. Last season we had 3 qualifiers and we won all 3 as a result we got to play europes elite. The group was almost impossible although some performances were shocking. This season we couldn't get to the top competition despite an excellent draw against a very beatable and poor Maribor side. So we got to play in the Europa league and we really did stumble through that against some poor sides. And against Salzburg at home well they could have beat us by anything they wanted that night. And ed your right to loose to Morton and in fact Lenny not winning a treble was not good enough. But through the cl we generated around 15m through Europa we will generate less than 3m. I'm not on to defend Lenny or slate rd. I just think we really stumbled through a poor Europa group this year so to praise rd and criticise Lenny on the European Basis is flawed.

Are you not aware only reason we never qualified against Maribor was due to serious injury problems to likes of Brown, Lustig, Matthews and Forrest to name a few?

The point I'm making is Lenny took us where we all want to be the cl. Rd didn't. And Matthews lustig and Forrest spent a lot of nl.s games injured. So how can people say that rd has done better than nl just because we are still in the second tier of Europe. Like I said mate I'm not on to criticise anyone I just feel that nl is being talked down for only getting us to cl group stages. Can I ask you this. At the start of the season what would you take. Cl group stages or last 16 Europa after Christmas

And a lack of transfers because the board wanted to wait till after we was knocked out to try strengthen

Gary, reality check for your nonsense of a post.

Lenny first season, remember these unknown teams Braga and the mighty Utrecht! Ooops must have slipped your mind. And while I remember Christ did some little team called Karagandy not beat us and it took a last minute goal at home to go through - yeah that shows last year was great before we got mauled by the poorest Milan team I have seen in my 34 years. Ajax got schooled by Salzburg as well in the Europa after they schooled us twice.

Did you see Maribor play against Chelsea, Sporting & Schalke? You know they drew against each of the above.

If you want to make comparisons then in his first season RD has already done more then Lennon.

Kev no one has mentioned nl.s first season. It just seems everyone who wants to defend rd will point to the fact we are still in Europe just now and we weren't last year. All I was saying was last year we were in the cl not the Europa. But if you find that nonsense then fair enough. This is a forum mate everyone has different opinions. Doesn't make it nonsense if you don't agree with it.

Also kev if you read my post fully you will see I stated some of our cl performances were terrible last year. All I was saying is it's hard to compare rd not taking us to cl but Europa last 16. And Lenny got us to cl but we were put out. It's all about opinions mate.

You can't compare Lennon last year to RD first year!

That's completely unfair on RD.

I have said before if we are to compare managers then RD must be given at least 3 years only then can real comparisons be made.

I can see your point if RD fails to get us in the CL this year but for now we should maybe stop comparing last season to this.

I will also take my own advice on this.

Nonsense was harsh, apologies Gary

Think I am getting fed up with the negativity around Celtic and in particular RD.

Gary i'm happy with what Deila has done so far on limited resources. Think about it. The Maribor game not only did we have Brown, Lustig, Matthews and Forrest injured but Samaras and Forster left club and at that point only Gordon was brought in. that's a serious dent to any squad.

Il take Europa League last 16 over last seasons CL group stages. My reason obviously not financial but enertainment based. The SPL was already a boring league, but to be out of all competitions by this point last season was unacceptable. It was soul destroying knowing league was won and nothing else to play for.

Kev T the comparison you make between NL and RD first season is erroneous. RD inherited a title winning squad which lost one league game and won the league by a margin of 31 points. NL first whole season he had a decimated squad which lost the league by a considerable margin (which would have been greater but for his run of wins in the last eight games). NL had to rebuild out of necessity. RD could have adopted as lower pace of change and focused on ensuring results in vitally important CL results. In my view NL is a far superior manager than RD with greater knowledge and tactical nous. An RD would never have beaten Barcelona and qualified for the last 16

{Ed007's Note - How the hell did NL have a decimated squad in his first full season? He brought in Charlie Mulgrew, Cha Du-Ri, Joe Ledley, Daryl Murphy, Efraín Juárez, Gary Hooper, Beram Kayal, Daniel Majstorovic, Emilio Izaguirre, Fraser Forster, Anthony Stokes, Nicky Feely, Olivier Kapo, Freddie Ljungberg, Tony Watt and Kris Commons.
The only 2 of note that left was Boruc and McGeady, the rest were either Mowbray's duds or squad players.
We had no European football after failing in both the CL and EL qualifiers and lost the LC final to Rangers.
If RD had that kind of disaster for a first season people would be screaming for him to be sacked, why didn't people want NL sacked after his complete failure?}

No worries kev. I have never mentioned NLs first season. My post was directed at those who believe we are better off now than last season because of Europe. All I was saying is there is 2 sides to that as Lenny took us to cl last year rd didn't get us there this year. Wasn't a pop at rd just think people were being a bit unfair on nl

Dn if your happy with rd that's your opinion at your just as entitled to yours as everyone else. I'm still concerned but trying not to panic just yet. Hope the guy succeeds and I will say this I admire the way the guy conducts himself I didn't always say that about nl.

Hi Ed

You answered your own point he had a decimated squad and had to sign all this players you mentioned and blend them into a team. Novo one wanted him sacked because of the magnitude of the rebuilding job, that is my point RD didn't have this task

{Ed007's Note - He didn't have to sign them, there were plenty of players on the books, if the team was decimated then it was him and John Park that done. Who knows, maybe a good coach would have been able to build a team out of the players who were already there and saved us millions.
NL was also allowed to bring in better players to replace those leaving, has RD been allowed to do the same? NL was giving millions to strengthen the squad, RD wasn't.
Nothing can change the fact that NL's first season was an abject failure. RD has already surpassed that by a)qualifying for Europe and b)being in Europe after Christmas.}

Gary I just think the guy deserves the season to get squad in shape and win at least the double. Main reason we did not get CL football this season is knowing we had injury issues, board were happy to not spend £ to address problems and gamble £20m which did not work.

I think if Deila brings in some much needed new faces this transfer window, team will be stronger.

If you remember right ed when Lenny took over we had lost 2 league titles. Just had tm as boss. And things weren't great. He lost to Ross county as interem boss and lost the league in his first season. But overall people seemed enthused and excited. Rd has taken over and he clearly wasn't first choice he's been given no money So he's been fighting to win people over almost from day one.

{Ed007's Note - When RD took over we had just had NL as boss and had only managed to win 5 trophies out of a possible 14, hardly the type of success you would expect, especially with no Rangers to challenge us, one double throughout his tenure is a very poor return.
Just look at the reaction of us being 4 points behind Aberdeen with 2 games in hand, remember when we were 15 points behind Rangers with 2 games in hand and everyone was shouting for NL to be sacked? Me neither!
Nobody can answer the question of why NL was backed by fans after failing to win the league, failing to qualify for either the CL or the EL and losing the LC final to Rangers in his first full season, yet RD is under pressure in January after taking us into a position to top the league if we win our games in hand, we are still in the LC and still have European football after Christmas. We never had any European football at all during NL's first season.
The Kenny Dalglish/John Barnes season returned the same amount of trophies as NL did in his first 18 months in charge.}

After the Ross co shambles nl said this just makes me want the job even more to sort this mess out. After his first full season he famously said this isn't the end this is the beginning. He was saying the rite things at the right time. Any European defeat was down to Mowbray and everyone believed in what the man was saying and his failure to win a domestic treble is overshadowed by his last 16 success. He should have won a treble there is no doubt. But he had the backing from the fans. The rd thing is strange he is dividing opinion so much. And that itself isn't a good sign. But at the same time he hasn't got tony Mowbray to blame whenever it goes wrong. He's a second choice manager following on from a club
Legend so it's always going to be difficult.

If you remember right ED there wasn't plenty of players available to hi. He inherited a disaster with five loan players plus a number who should never have been at the club like Josh Thompson. He gave us a real title challenge following the capitulation of TM and we lost the league by the narrowest of margins against a financially doped Rangers. I think the hatred he was subjected to and death threats he received made the fans back him that bit further and rightly so. No other manager ever has faced these outrageous conditions, I don't know about you but I am not sure how much I could concentrate on my job if my family and I were the targets of letter bombs and assaults. All in all I think he did a good job and had a similar record to WGS

{Ed007's Note - Did you cut and paste that from the Celtic View?}

Dn I think everyone was happy to give him time. the chances of him getting money I think seems limited. The problem is no one seen the challenge from the rest of the league coming. At the end of the day mate the guy will get his time. just needs to beat them and win a treble and we will all be happy.

I can answer that ED007. Neil Lennon is Irish, he was an ex-player and is "celtic minded" :-D

{Ed007's Note - I'd never thought about that.}

Quality AH that's hit the nail on the head

Interesting discussion and good points from all sides. I personally liked NL and believed he gambled on some signings because the board did not back him. Down at Bolton he has dragged the club out of the relegation zone. The results have been pretty good compared to the previous management. The Championship must be considered one of the toughest around so he is up for the challenge and doing pretty well. Which brings me back to the full backing of the board at Celtic. Anyway, just my two pence worth.

AH I'm the same as the Ed I never thought about that either

15 Jan 2015 06:57:52
Deila was apperantly not the fans first choice, but I know for a fact that Celtic had been talking to him for a while before he got the job. I remember Deila said no to go there to be an assistant to NL, the season before ultimativly ending in him taking over. Know that NL felt this was a way to squeeze him out of thd club and resigned, and did so in the middle of the season if i'm not wrong?

11 Jan 2015 08:44:03
Sheffield United have bid a 1 million for GMS I guess this is another one we will miss out on am getting a bit sick of this now.

So have a go at the club before anything has happened. Give me strength!

11 Jan 2015 10:37:15
I don't understand what your getting a bit sick off? That we are missing out on players YOU think we should be signing? That we haven't signed every player we have been linked with?(god we would have a squad of about a hundred players ). I think we should have signed Robertson and Russell and I'm disappointed we didn't, but I haven't found anything to be sick of because of it . I hope and would think rd has a plan and perhaps gms doesn't fit in to it at the price quoted. You think gms is a good player , I think he is overrated and would rather sign Armstrong but if we don't I won't be sick of Celtic .

Sam1888, must have thought Deila was serious when he said he might be the entire Dundee Utd and Aberdeen teams
We have just as good of players on our books as the vast majority of other SPL players . I am sick of the clamour to sign average player whether from the Spl or other leagues . I think GMS isn't good enough to get sick over .

11 Jan 2015 00:03:36
Proof that our club is moving rapidly the wrong direction. 2 seasons ago we moaned about being trounced by Juve in CL last 16, no mention of SPL, last season we moaned about an abysmal display in CL group stages, no mention of SPL, this season hoping Aberdeen hit a sticky patch so we can win the SPL.

Stevie, I don't know of anyone wanting Aberdeen to have a sticky patch . It's totally in our hands for us to win the league . I thought even the most pessimistic Celtic fan, who seems at his posting best, when he thinks Celtic are under pressure would know that.
It shows how well we have improved when we still have a chance of a domestic treble in January . Didn't have that last year boo - boy .

11 Jan 2015 01:33:55
Chris you are on the wind up aren't you? You do realise the reason you think we've improved is because we've beaten hearts and plastic thistle? What about being knocked out of CL qualifiers twice when last season we qualified at the first attempt and trailing in SPL when last season we were leading by miles.

{Ed007's Note - We lost to Morton in the League Cup last year, they were relegated from the SPFL Championship, the division below us, and lost 10-2 to Accies along the way. And we were out of Europe this time last year.}

Lennon blinkers on Steve?

Stevie, your negativity has turned sensible Celtic supporters to oppose your long -held glass half empty views .