Celtic Banter Archive December 11 2015

 

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11 Dec 2015 22:19:05
Not going to get into it too much, but for me where Ronny is going wrong most is he's not ruthless enough when it comes to dropping out of form players, its by far one of his biggest weaknesses as manager. He's letting the same players get away with playing poorly week by week and it's poor management tbh and shows Ronny hasn't got a spine.

For me, the main five constant players who play every week when fit and imo these are the players who have massively contributed to our downfall the most this season in Europe as they're just not up to task. Those five players are Gordon, Boyata, Johansen, Brown and Armstrong who all seem to play every time they're fit. For me these are by far the biggest liabilities for me of the players who are constantly played when fit. For whatever reason they're out of form and just not performing to anywhere near the standard required not just in Europe but also domestically. I just can't fathom why Ronny can't seem to see this, does anyone else agree? I'm not going to get into other under performers because they don't usually play and are usually on the bench or whatever.

I don't understand why Ronny doesn't just keep the same formation which is fine, but switch Gordon with Bailly for a spell, Take Boyata out and put Ambrose back in there or even move Lustig to CB and play Efe RB until Janko is back fit, take Brown/Johansen/Armstrong out (I realise Brown is injured currently) also and replace them with any one of Allan/Rogic/McGregor in the middle and attacking roles permanantly and see how they perform there. Commons, Forrest and Bitton when fit must always play imo in midfield. With Allan/Rogic/McGregor fighting for the other two spots, with Christie also fighting when he's fit. There shouldn't be a place for your Armstrongs/Johansens/Browns currently in the first team.

Make these changes and we will improve ten fold imo. Why can't Ronny see this?

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12 Dec 2015 01:23:40
Ronny does keep the same formation, that's part the problem!
So not sure what you've been watching the last wee while?
Barring 1 or 2 games or a last 15 mins here or there,
4-2-3-1 is the way he plays and always will, until he realises we can't lol
It's European thing and a lot have followed suit to make sure we/they don't get overrun in midfield.
It's embarrassing we play that way in the SPFL, europe I don't mind, we just don't have the players to play it well just now.

Effe needs some confidence, he's not going to get it playing in our defence, Armstrong doesn't need dropped he needs played centre mid but can't get in because of Brown Bitton and Johansen, he gets played wide so he's on the pitch! Not great but neither is the stupid formation or lack of players to play it.

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{Ed007's Note - Some people get too caught up in where people stand at kick-off, that's all a formation is, what's the difference between a RW and the attacking right sided player in a 4-2-3-1, isn't playing in behind the striker what a No.10 has been for years?
For years we complained that our managers needed to change their systems when it came to Europe and now it's a fault that a manager is trying to get the team playing the same way no matter the opposition. If we're going to make any in roads in Europe we need to find a system that we play well in and become a well drilled, hard to beat team. We should have been using the domestic game to hone our style for Europe, NL played the mega defensive 4-5-1 in Europe and nobody complained - in fact I'd hazard a guess that a lot of people complaining about RD's formation in Europe wouldn't know where NL told players to stand at kick-off.
Surely you want our players to play in a system they're playing every week and comfortable in, the more they play it the better they'll become.
RD''s 'formation' has seen us win two domestic trophies, qualify for the latter stages of a European competition and draw away to Ajax and Fenerbahce, I also expect more trophies to be added this year.
Suporters weren't complaining about formations in Europe in 2012 when Xavi from their beloved Barcelona accused NL's team of playing 'anti-football' and Bernd Schuster said we were 'unworthy' of being in the CL.
That was back in the good old days when fans backed the manager, now if people came out and said that there's fans who'd be queuing up to agree with them.
How did MON's 3-5-2 work out in the footballing Utopia of the CL, and didn't his stubborness not to change things cost us in Seville?}

12 Dec 2015 02:41:33
That's all very well and good lads, however seemed to have missed my point or I have not worded correctly. I have no problem with the formation whatsoever in fact I quite like it, both domestically and in Europe a 4-2-3-1 for works just fine and I'm happy for Ronny to go with that formation every week. I'm not one of these folk desperate to see 'two up front' which so many people cry out for domestically, it's outdated nonsense.

A main striker, with three very capable creative and attacking players behind the striker is a great attack against any side, if indeed you have the right players and here's part of the problem for me. My point is some of the players whom occupy these roles currently when fit are causing the system to fail and ultimately the blame has to lie with Deila who picks them every week.

For me atm Griffiths is the best of a bad bunch up top, however for as many goals as he has scored domestically I still feel we need better up top next campaign, no harm to Leigh but he's just not got it when we go up a couple levels. Very happy for him to stay as back up eventually though, but he'll do for now. For me the three behind the striker atm anyway must always be Commons and Forrest and then one of Rogic/Allan/McGregor/Christie to fill that other space up behind the striker because for me Armstrong and Johansen just don't cut it behind the striker but the frustration is Ronny keeps trying to shoehorn them in there. This is how I'm feeling atm in regards to Ronny and my main concerns about him. He keeps playing inferior players in certain positions and doesn't seem to want to change his ways at all in that regard.

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{Ed007's Note - I don't see much in that to disagree with and it's dark place we're in when Forrest is playing well.. I'm scared! Some people are calling out for a CB to be brought in but personally I'd rather see the attacking 3 positions strenghtened,. If we get the right player in there I think a lot of things in the final third would fall into place - or Johansen finds form in that No.10 spot - but again the sticking point is that those kind of players usually cost serious budo.

12 Dec 2015 10:54:51
Did boyata not play RB at city would be interesting to swap him and Lustig and get a better keeper and in time our defence will become more settled. I don't think we should change the defence again. Agree with you ed I'd rather strengthen further up the park.

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12 Dec 2015 14:21:52
Do you not think Ed to play this system you really need a ball playing CH or you need two CBs that are really comfortable with the ball at there feet? That is where we miss VVD already IMO.

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{Ed007's Note - I said this on here last November:

{Ed007's Note - VVD and Denayer are both ball-playing CBs (like the old liberos or sweepers), they're comfortable on the ball and as well as marking and tackling the ball-playing CBs should be able to read the game very well and can intercept and play the ball out of defence either by making incisive forward passes or even making forward runs when in possession.
If you have a ball-playing CB you need a 'stopper' beside them, their role is all about winning the ball, marking and tackling their opponents and being dominant in the air. The big 'stopper' style players are the hard men of the team with a 'thou shall not pass' attitude, their physical presence should instil a sense of fear and intimidation into opponents and a sense of belief and security to their team-mates.
Most successful CB partnerships consist of a 'stopper' and a ball-playing defender - the stopper winning possession with his physical approach and his partner tidying up and playing the ball out of defence, just like the Ferdinand/Vidic partnership, Laurent Blanc/Desailly for France or Hummels/Subotic partnership at Dortmund, we need a big physical 'stopper' to play alongside either VVD or Denayer, someone who will do the dirty work to allow them to get on the ball and open up the game from the back.}

I still maintain that in any system where you play with two CB's that you need a ball-playing one and a stopper. Simunovic looks like he can play a bit, the question is if Boyata can fill the stopper role.}

12 Dec 2015 15:45:04
I totally agree Ed never knew you said that must have missed that I had Jozo down as the tough nut if am honest

I do remember you saying that you don't come from Jozo's " neck of the woods" to look good in the team photo mate lol (words to that effect mate) (y)

It's why a wondered if Nir Bitton could play there crikey if you could put half a stone on him what an all rounder he would be!

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{Ed007's Note - I wasn't sure what type of player Simunovic was going to be but he looks comfortable on the ball.
If we could get some muscle on Bitton I think he would be a better player than Wanyama, he's definitely a more intelligent player but he lacks the physical presence of VW.}

12 Dec 2015 18:17:45
Celtic for ever You post make these changes and We will improve ten fold . You go on to say you cannot understand Why Ronny can't see this .
In my opinion Ronny doesn't see this because he doesn't think you are right . C F E
You don't have a monopoly of knowledge and wisdom re Celtic players .
There is one certainty and that is Deila who along with his coaches see the players more than anyone else, they are certainly not allowing sentialmentality to get into the way of not picking the best players for a particular game . They know their future with Celtic footballer club is at stake, in fact maybe even in professional football.
I think our management put more thought and care in selecting their team, I think they are more likely to get it correct more often than a fan who may or may not be at every game . The problem with fan selections is that fans have no idea of the specific tasks given to individual players and hence have no idea of whether individual players have carried out their detailed task . Only the management knows it's dead on presenting your teams and favourite players but once you think u know more than the manager, it's time to ease up.

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12 Dec 2015 18:31:10
For what it's worth, I think we should try to avoid a situation where we lose both our centre halves at the same time.
In my view if one stays at the club, then he can help the new man bed in, I don't think there would be as much uncertainty with the rest of the defence and the goalkeeper either.
I feared last season that there may be problems in losing Van Dijk and Denayer at the same time, I hope that in future the club do all they can to avoid this happening again.

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{Ed007's Note - You're spot on there, Gerry.}

12 Dec 2015 21:17:12
I think that Boyata is getting better every week? He looks a lot better than he did!

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{Ed007's Note - It would have been hard to look any worse but hopefully he can keep improving and find some consistency.}

12 Dec 2015 22:11:34
I am confident that we will have a good defensive partnership before the end of the season if the present pair keep fit .

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12 Dec 2015 22:13:26
Old Bhoy I'm getting really fed up with you pal, please stop replying to my posts trying to undermine me and others which you seem to revel in doing on a daily basis on here. We're all here to have an opinion and this is mine and I've plenty evidence to back it up.

These five players I've mentioned have been constants when fit in an absolutely dire campaign, that is no coincidence and that is why I would like to see change as I personally feel these players are holding us back as a side.

Of these five players I've mentioned (Gordon, Boyata, Brown, Johansen, Armstrong) since you seem to be the expert tell me the positives they brought to us this season in Europe where it mattered? I'm curious?

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13 Dec 2015 17:02:33
Celtic for ever I don't rate you as my pal. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that is what these forums are about . In your case your "opinion" comes across to me as you think you have superior knowledge . That you know more than manager and his assistants in team selections, yet Ronny is working with the players on a daily basis and you only see them live at some matches . In my opinion you are not in a better position to judge than Ronny and his advisers .
I agree as often with posters and probably oftener than you do . C F E.

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11 Dec 2015 20:30:38
Sorry to be pain in arse guys but i'm needin help if you can, not tech minded but managed to download and install kodi on samsung phone got lots off addons but for the life off me i can't find one site that has the new krays film with tom hardy been looking for it since it came in poctures any info would be greatful cheers . tfb.

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{Ed007's Note - Sorry mate, I don't know anyone that's managed to get it yet.}

11 Dec 2015 23:36:33
you can get it on putlocker solarmovies falkirkbhoy.

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12 Dec 2015 07:46:55
Try 'showbox' mate u kin doonload that app on your fone and get most films and ones that aren't even out in cinemas yet

HH

Chris1888.

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12 Dec 2015 10:09:11
Cheers bhoys got showbox mate can't get it on that got it on one site in kodi just wish i understoid russian! Will try putlocker today cheers.

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11 Dec 2015 19:43:11
I can't believe the stick CG is getting he is top class. Oops soz ed blinkers on he is gash, seems you were right all along, tho if he comes good again would you admit he is good lol.
Anyway 2 points about our team, Kris Commons outstanding goal (Larssonesque? ) , that's 90 goals and heading for 100.
I would argue if it wasn't for RD he would aleady be there. So for 300k what a piece of business that is considering the flak the club takes on here over signings and the flak Commons himself gets on here.
I have compared him to Lubo before although not in his class he has certainly contributed more to Celtic than Lubo has.
John Hartson was the last man to score 100 goals for us and he cost 6m ffs and had a wee bit of a weight issue. So would Hartson not get a game for us because of this lol.
2nd point, I have already mentioned CG in the fault for our goal/goals in Europe, but did anyone notice (and this is not the first time but has happened countless times) that Cifti lost the ball and the opposition player travels 40-50 yards without a celtic player near him and 1 pass and their in on goal.
This for me is a current theme that as soon as we lose the ball other teams cut us open far too easily.
That is down to coaching and not bein set up properly, surely any coach worth his salt will pull the odd player aside and say "look when we on the attack you plug holes be aware of the danger when we have the ball even if u have to take the guy out at half way".
Not rocket science, you don't have to be an outstanding player to do this you just need to be given a specific job.
I don't think Rd does this he is too focused on playing this Utopian football that never happens.

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{Ed007's Note - I'm trying to think when CG was good for him to 'come good again'....

11 Dec 2015 19:53:48
Player of the year ed, you don't get that for being bad lol.

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{Ed007's Note - That was nothing more than a sympathy vote from people we constantly berate for EVERYTHING they do - or are you going to back up the written press in Scotland?}

11 Dec 2015 20:59:38
No point in moaning these days about Gordon, end of the day its Peter Lawwell who picks the team.

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{Ed007's Note - I wouldn't go that far.}

11 Dec 2015 22:50:00
It speaks volumes for Gordon's total inability to play in goals by the way he failed to deal with a 40/50 yard punt up the field into his area . Nothing could have been simpler for him to deal with. He couldn't hold any other Celtic player to account.

I am afraid it looked as if he was afraid to go for the ball and that he would be hit late by the striker. Now that's a terrible indictment on the goalie.
No matter how big of blunders Ambrose has made, Gordon has bettered them.

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11 Dec 2015 23:31:11
I've said from day 1 when he signed that his biggest weakness is getting beat at the Near post time after time. Time for the Bench.

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11 Dec 2015 23:32:37
So if the press start berating Gordon and saying he is rubbish we are not to believe them ed lol.

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{Ed007's Note - It's you that's using them to back up your weak argument, I don't bother my backside what they say.}

12 Dec 2015 13:05:01
By your theory ed Forrest is a stick on for it this season then lol.

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{Ed007's Note - My theory on what, the press talking 5hite? It's hardly a theory.}

11 Dec 2015 17:46:15
If anyone in Chester area development squad playing Liverpool at deva stadium tomorrow 1pm ko £5 at gate.

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11 Dec 2015 08:29:57
Sad news about peralta, rip prays go out to all his loved ones.

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11 Dec 2015 13:19:48
R. I. P thoughts go to all his friends and family.

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11 Dec 2015 18:22:23
Yeah thoughts to his friends and family R. I. P.

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12 Dec 2015 11:00:12
Don't know who the sad act is who hit the disagree button but in my opinion you are a disgrace to yourself, the club and the entire human race.

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11 Dec 2015 01:21:29
The statistics and hard facts will show this was a very poor European season for us.
The opposition from CL qualifiers to EL group games were not the continents elite and we were found wanting in many games. However if I am completely honest and open minded there were a couple of good points. wait for it.
We started some of the games like Malmo at home, Ajax away and Fenerbace at home very well and scored early goals and we got draws in Holland and Turkey.

Unfortunately there were more bad points than good; with far too many basic and stupid mistakes - from experienced guys like Izzaguire, Ambrose and Gordon and some really poor performances from the likes of Brown, Johansen, Bitton and Lustig
Unfortunately the mistakes and lapses cost you dearer in Europe.

The manager (and his assistants) will take some stick too for finishing bottom without one single victory, but I would have to say too many players let him and the fans down by not performing to their maximum and making too many very basic mistakes.
I will say that the style of play RD promised has rarely been seen - if at all in games and we are very predictable and easy to play against - although abandoning the zonal may have helped the back four improve?

A good few of them had CL experience and would assume that is were they belong:- however over the whole group stage only Tierney in my opinion showed any real class and potential to play at that level.
Too many of them were outplayed, outfought and outmanoeuvred by so called average European opponents.

It is likely that the manager and bulk of this squad will be here at the start of next season - barring a total domestic implosion, as the club will not sack a manager who continues the title run and maybe a cup?
There are also, players who may well improve like Armstrong, Boyata or Rogic and Lustig might get back to his best?
Allen and Simunovic look to be settling in too and Christie will help, while Griffiths is the only reliable striker we have at present.
However there are a few that have been very disappointing like Gordon, Johansen and Izzaguire and one or two that have made little or no impact like GMS and Cifcti and if you include the unsettled players - we need to purge the squad as we have much room for improvement/replacement.

its disappointing to be out of Europe, but at least we won't have those Thursday - Sunday matches, so there can be no excuse for any slip ups or distractions.

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{Ed007's Note - How many of our players had CL expeience, Lustig, Brown & Commons are the only ones I can think of who are regulars in the matchday squad.}

11 Dec 2015 10:55:34
What I like about us under RD is that we get out the blocks and actually look to give teams a go. With the right quality on the park we'll be just fine and I'm taking confidence from some of our performances. When you look at the squad on paper the weaknesses are blatant. If we can get players in who aren't going to have howlers in goal and defence, as well as a striker proven at a decent level. If my auntie had a set of balls she'd be my uncle but if we cut out the diwn rught stupidity then wed have qualified for the CL, topped this Europa group and even won a treble last year. Keep at it Ronnie.

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11 Dec 2015 10:26:34
Cheers Ed; I wasn't just talking about last nights team, I was covering all European matches and was including the likes of izzaguire and Ambrose also who have played in the CL for a few seasons - plus the guys you mentioned.

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{Ed007's Note - I forgot about those two.}

11 Dec 2015 13:21:31
understandable Ed lol.

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{Ed007's Note - To be fair to them both I'd keep them around as squad players as they're both more than capable of playing domestically for us, and if they're happy enough to stick around as cover then why not? Tierney is still young and we can't expect him to play every week so Izaguirre will still get a decent amount of game time throughout the next season and a half. }

11 Dec 2015 14:00:42
Aye Jim Tim and if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be out in the rain doing a 12 hour shift! If if if! So we fly out the blocks then the other 80 min of the game we're woeful! The guys record speaks for itself mate! One failure after the next in Europe! And I would put my mortgage on us being on here this time next year sayin the same thing! Like I said before is this guy a protected species or something? His European record is embarrassing l! But keep at it Ronnie! Make us an even bigger laughing stock! If that's possible!

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11 Dec 2015 14:32:47
There's no chance Ronny will drop Gordon for a spell even though it's the right thing to do. He's very stubborn that way he rarely drops under-performers. See Johansen, Boyata, Brown, Armstrong and Gordon as examples of this.

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11 Dec 2015 15:34:02
It's all been individual errors Beav. RD has tried different players, bar Gordon, but the stupid mistakes continue to happen. RD can't be blamed for the manner in which we've conceded or fluffed chances. The guy has one hand tied.

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11 Dec 2015 18:34:39
There is a myth developing that RD tactics and system are good and he is only let down by players making mistakes. it's balderdash, we lost too many goals because the shape of the team was wrong, our full backs were to high up the park and passes from the centre halls were intercepted. The se, t up defending corners was atrocious and away from home we were constantly swamped in the midfield. he continued to play players way out of form and his use of substitutes were nothing short of appalling. All in all no wins in the group and 11 without a win in the EL. The biggest issue for me though is his inability to accept responsibility. Yesterday he was talking about finding out about the players mentality playing in a meaningless game. I'm interested in their mentality when they are und pressure. Now he is telling us we will improve because we are out, last year we were going to improve because we were in playing better teams. When he is trying to make profit from, disasters someone should remind him you can't polish a turd. He is responsible for the performances, he told us that himself 18 months ago. He promised high tempo pressing football which would overwhelm the opposition where is it?

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11 Dec 2015 19:18:46
Jim the guys clueless! He doesn't know what he's doin! He's way out his depth! And I think he knows it.1st it's him sayin the players are scared going on the pitch now it's the players saying it! The stokes and commons incident also! It's a shambles! Can anyone honestly hand on heart say that theyr confident going into another CL qualifier with this guy in charge? The facts don't lie! 11 games in a row in Europes 2nd competion without a win! The 1st time we've finished a group stage in CL or EL without a single win! 28 games in Europe with 4 wins! Like I said I'm not even including the part timers of Iceland! Would u like me to go on?

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11 Dec 2015 19:37:59
Hand on heart, I have confidence in him. I hope the club do and back him.

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11 Dec 2015 20:54:40
Well Jim Tim I admire your loyalty mate, I really do! Just can't agree but. i hope we can both come on this time next year and see who was right! Lol! Hope I'm proved wrong and we're in the CL! Just can't see anything on the pitch or from the management team that says that's going to happen!

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11 Dec 2015 22:57:23
If Deila continues down the road of introducing and playing our own youth and buying young players in Scotland and build a new team I think Deila will be successful. For us to become competitive the Board need to back. Deila, not just by buying the players he wants but also by holding on to where possible and also by giving Deila time.
There is so much money for at least a few clubs in very many European leagues Celtic cannot buy their succes .

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12 Dec 2015 22:16:58
beav81
There has been many seasons that we haven't qualified for league section of either Champions League or Europa League . The world didn't end and the manager didn't lose his job .

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