Celtic Banter Archive May 10 2013

 

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10 May 2013 23:46:18
Having a look on the everton page ther just for a nosey about lenny rumours and seen a guys post saying lennon would be good because they would get hooper and wanyama haha aye good luck getting the funds for wanyama and a guy replied sayin wanyama is a 'good' player and hooper is bellow average and not as good as jelavic typical engish fans so fkn arrogant considering the lack of goals they have coming from strikers and he says hooper is below average aye because jelavic has scored a frightening amount this season

GunnieBhoy

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10 May 2013 21:56:07
Why do bookies have Lennon favourite for Everton? Don't they know there's a div2 Manager who is the best in Scotland? And there's McCall and Butcher?
If Walter Smith got a shout for Everton, then there's no question of Lennon's ability.

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10 May 2013 20:44:22
part 2

If you cut a player earning £4000 a week that will save you a little over £200,000. Cut six of those players and you're only a fifth of the way there. Do you get it now?

Do you get how deep the hole is?

Do you get how heavy, how horrendous, those cuts might need to be? Say you had players at the club earning £10,000 a week. Cut five of them - your five best players, your top stars, the guys fans pay to go and watch every week - and in the scenario outlined above, where you can add £6,000,000 to your earnings, you will break even.

But in that scenario, will you be able to sell 40,000 season tickets? Will you sell any? The stands would be empty, but that, whether you like it or not, is the future. if you want to have a future.

There are people on the board advocating exactly the course of action I've just outlined. A huge rise in prices, and a huge drop in costs. Those voices, believe it or not, are the only sane people at your club. They deal in hard numbers, and in reality.

Instead of pursuing that path people are talking about opening talks with Kris Boyd and Nacho Novo. Have you learned nothing? I heard one fan say the other night "Novo would run into a wall for the Rangers jersey. " and I have no doubt he would. Slowly. Another fan talked about how quick he looked in the Rangers "charity" game recently, apparently without realising he'd been playing alongside an out of shape, overweight fifty year old. I stipulate that I too would look like Usain Bolt in those circumstances.


Yet even if it were true, even if Novo had lightening pace and the ability to open up defences with one flick of his boot, what would be the point? Rangers will be playing in Division 2 next season, Scottish football's third tier. Do they need Nacho Novo and Kris Boyd to get out of a league of part-time teams? What kind of vote of confidence is that in the youth setup? What does it say about the mentality of the management team?

These people are gambling with the future stability of your football club (such as it is) for the sake of what? A quick fix.

There is no quick fix. There is no easy way out. Rangers is facing a journey that will take years and years, and winning the Third Division is not a sign of forward progress, because the club is still going backwards.

It's spending money it hasn't got, it is living on borrowed time and planning for a future it might not have. Every penny should be a prisoner. Yet they are talking to Jon Daly and Cammy Bell and putting out feelers to other SPL players. Surely utilising the best of Rangers' youth is a better bet than that? Surely that's the sensible, sane thing to do?

Yet McCoist will bleat that his hands are being tied, as Walter Smith once did when the cuts began to bite. Had the bank not put the brakes on Rangers' running up of debt there would have been no need for Craig Whyte and his ruinous term.

The club would have gone to the wall anyway. Those who blame the bank have no idea what they are talking about. The only rational course of action was to cut, and cut to the bone. When the club refused to do it for themselves the bank decided to do it for them, and even that was resisted.

Was it resisted for the benefit of the club? Of course not. The best interests of the club would have been served by its surviving.

The people who defended their right to spend their way towards the grave are those whose names are held in the greatest reverence by the supporters they have betrayed, let down and failed; Smith, McCoist, Paul Murray, John Greig.

This is the future? It reeks of the failings of the past. Rangers is not moving up but, to paraphrase Bill Paxton, are on an "express elevator to Hell. Going down. "

That's the inconvenient truth. These people are not going to save Rangers. They are part of the problem. They are the vested interests. They hold the shares, they draw the big salaries, they are looking at their own prosperity, and their own balance sheets, at their own CV's, and their own places in history. They are not going to walk away, because it's not in their interests to do so.

They talk a good game though. They talk about having the club's "best interests" at heart. They are the Great Pretenders. They are inside the walls, peering out. If they were as dedicated to the cause as they claim, they would give it to you straight. They would walk out together, call a press conference and tell you what's really going on. That would require an act of sacrifice, not platitudes and weasel words.

It's not going to happen. These are not the leaders Rangers needs.

I strongly suspect they are what the club will get.

The lessons haven't been learned.

marco1888

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10 May 2013 20:43:29
One of the most interesting features of the latest crisis at Rangers is the way in which the media has been used to wage war via leaks and briefings.

It's almost like a miniature version of Westminster politics in that it looks snide, bitchy and does no-one any good whatsoever.

With every leak comes the expectation of more. Indeed, some leaks are designed to send people scurrying about for further information. It is destabilising. It is embarrassing. It keeps the rest of the world at arm's length, and it treats the Rangers fans like mugs.

Rangers supporters are shortly going to be asked to put their hands in their pockets, and stump up for next year's season tickets. Those inside Ibrox have a brass neck for even daring to ask. They have given the fans nothing but garbage. They have kept them in the dark. They have cut them out of the most important discussions. They have allowed the club to drift back into darkness, and they've done it lying to the supporters all the while.

If you believe the spin from Ibrox, everything is alright. We all know it's not. To pretend otherwise is to insult the intelligence of every person watching.

As someone who has been watching for a long time, I can see clearly that trouble is never behind Rangers anymore. It's simply on the other side of the wheel, coming around again.

How did it get like that? It got like that because since the 1980's that club has never had to live within its means. Fans have been spoon-fed notions of superiority until the idea is grossly entwined with the psyche of the support. When Ally McCoist threw "We are the people" at a tv journalist recently, a section of the Rangers support applauded like performing seals who'd just been tossed a fish. The rest of the world - including much of the club's own fan base - cringed. McCoist was not simply playing to the gallery. He was playing to the gutter.

It's hard at times not to strongly dislike McCoist. The man with so many friends in the media cannot possibly be the cynical, arrogant, bitter, angry and reckless individual who so often comes across these days. He strikes me as someone underhanded, someone sneaky, someone of low cunning who resorts to feigning ignorance when he has raised a storm, or provoked a controversy. He knows his friends in the media will give him an easy ride, and he is well aware that he has a loud, vocal following amongst the support.


He plays to this following constantly, most notably in his now infamous "we don't do walking away" speech. This has been held up as an example of how he will fight Rangers corner to the bitter end, but of course it is no such thing.

His refusal to walk away from the tribulations at Ibrox is not purely down to his allegiances. In case it has escaped the notice of the fans, this guy is in a well-paid job, which he's doing badly. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't walk away either, especially as it's very likely to be his last in management. I would hang on in there like grim death. I would not leave voluntarily under any circumstances. I would not go until they used pliers to pull my fingernails out of the desk.

Allow me to be blunt. McCoist knows what Green knew and what Whyte before him did. He knows how to appeal to a section of the Rangers support. He talks the talk. He says the things they want to hear. He is "one of them" and speaks their language. He does all of this because if he didn't, if he was just another football manager, he would have been fired long ago as useless. He won his first trophy as manager a few weeks ago. the Third Division title. With the second most expensive squad not in that league, but the whole country. His team were awful to watch, which is the hallmark of his teams, from the minute he took over in the post.

Let's be honest; even when he had a full strength Rangers team, utilising talents such as Jelavic and Davis and McGregor, they were dire. Cup exits, European disasters, throwing away a double digit league lead. this is the managerial record which lies behind the "Rangers till I die" exterior, and this is the very reason for it. If he was not "Super Ally" everyone knows he'd be long gone.

McCoist has a salary that is large beyond belief, given to him when the club was still in the SPL and Europe. On top of that, he has a very nice package of shares, and doubtless he is well aware of what would happen to the value of those if he was to throw up his hands and say "enough is enough. " If Rangers fans are waiting for leadership from him - real leadership - they're going to have a long, long wait. He's not shown any yet, and he won't.

There are other people at Ibrox playing the same game. Foremost amongst them is, of course, Walter Smith. That's another unpopular opinion to hold, but I stand to it all the same. Quite how this guy can brass-neck it in his non-executive post I do not know, but it's widely believed that it was his decision to take a seat on the board that lent the early legitimacy to Green and his people which sold the successful share issue. How did Green get Smith on board? Not by being open, and transparent, with him, surely? Because then Smith would never have taken a seat. I know a £70,000 job for life didn't hurt, nor did the offer of shares to go with it.


Smith is one of the people pushing an agenda through the media. But he's doing it from behind the curtain of intermediaries and "friends of" attributions, rather than simply walking out of the front door and calling a press conference. If Smith gave a damn - if he genuinely cared about the Rangers fans, as he has spent a career claiming - he might be willing to put aside his Ibrox pension plan and his nest egg of shares. Say whatever you like about John Brown. He did it. He resigned from his job, and tried to tell the fans what was going on. He looked like an person doing it. but he was right.

In contrast to Brown, who put himself on the line, and did it by stepping into the front line, it is tempting to look at Walter Smith and say he's bought and paid for, that it's the money he values, not the supporters. Rangers fans looking for leadership need not bother looking to Smith. His conduct as manager is part of the reason they are in this shambles - a big part. His is a short-term outlook.

Tomorrow is all that matters to this guy and tomorrow he'll still be on the board.

Short-termism is a big problem at Rangers, and it's the reason their supporters need to start bracing themselves. That club has problems so huge that quantifying them is a monstrous task. Between a media that feeds them a constant diet of rubbish and the mendacity of those who are in positions of responsibility at the club there are real problems there and the fans don't know a tenth of it. What can we say for sure? It will be a long road back.

This is where Rangers fans have to wake up and smell the coffee.

The club is in a real bind right now, and everywhere they turn the bonds get tighter and the options narrow further. With losses of £1 million per month it is evident to almost any person with a modicum of sanity that they can't increase their spending, as has been mooted in the press. Without over-draft facilities, without the understanding of a bank - which they don't have and will not get - who the Hell is going to carry that debt when the well runs dry, as it will?

Forget the possibility of others investing. Forget that utterly, and entirely. With the present owners, and the people waiting in the wings, that is simply not going to happen unless these people are deep Rangers men. and we've already seen the mentality of deep Rangers men like McCoist and Smith. No-one is going to chuck money down a bottomless pit just so a football club can climb back up through the ranks of Scottish football. It is ludicrous. At the present "burn rate" it would cost a minimum of £12 million per annum to keep the Good Ship Rangers afloat. The higher the club climbs the higher the annual outgoings. and the higher the level of debt.

Don't be fooled into thinking a swift rise will see money pile up in the bank. I said earlier that this club hasn't had to live within its means for almost 30 years, and that mean an entire generation of Rangers fan have grown up seeing success built on someone else's money. They are simply not psychologically built for anything else. Trying to explain to them that the club can only spend what it earns is like trying to explain Pythagorean theory to a six year old. Charles Green spoon-fed them an entire banquet of b******* earlier this year by talking about how the club could earn £100 million per year, and put them on a par with Real Madrid and Man Utd. it was fantasy, but without a doubt there are people out there who believed every word.

Celtic, with a complete infrastructure, fully integrated and organic, at the height of their earnings, made £70 million one year, with Champions League football. It was a one off and we've not come close to it since. Even "healthy" Rangers never came close to that kind of annual income, with European football, season ticket sales and a good team on the park. How in God's name could anyone believe they would do it from a standing start, marooned in the lower leagues and without access to European income of any kind? Madness.


At the present time, Rangers has no infrastructure far less the kind needed to raise that kind of money. To invest in that stuff properly costs millions, and the payoff doesn't come for years. The youth academy is sucking money out of the club like a vampire drinks blood, but the idea of cutting back on that is insanity, because that needs to be the production line for the team in the future. But to get that up to snuff won't be possible with cuts. in fact, multiple millions more will need to be spent on that project in order to make it work right. That's a scouting network, a coaching network, money for signings, investment in new facilities and technology. all these things are going to cost money to build and worse. they are an on-going expense.

Why did I mention cuts? I did so, Rangers fans, because that is your future, if you want to survive. And it's well past time someone was straight with you about that. McCoist telling the world about wanting six or seven new players, of talking about raising the standard of the squad - and I say again, the second most expensive squad in the country - is leading you to one place only; the abyss. The club cannot afford it.

The immediate future is about creating a sustainable business, not chasing pipedreams of a Scottish Cup with blue ribbons on it.

The talk that "real Rangers men" will be next to own the club should scare the bejesus out of all of you. Because if these "real Rangers men" come in with a plan to spend their way back to the top of the Scottish game you are on a road to nowhere. The last thing you will see are the rocks as the ship once again runs aground, and you will deserve everything you get for letting the club fall into the hands of people who have no long term goals.

Here's what needs to happen. Rangers needs to make drastic cuts across the board. Far from adding to the playing squad, it needs to be slashed. Bye-bye big earners. You can no longer afford them. That's a simple fact of life. If you don't believe me look again at the figures; losses of £1 million a month my friends. That's a loss of £12 million a year, and if you think that should be easy money to recoup, let me clue you in. Say you increase season ticket prices by a £100 each. Providing you sell 40,000 of them, you've bagged £4,000,000 extra. Say you sell the naming rights to the stadium, and that brings you in the estimated £1 million. Say the new bar makes £1 million a year in profit. which is quite ludicrous, but say it does. You're only halfway home, but now in order to break even you only have to make £6 million worth of cuts. end of part 1.

marco1888

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10 May 2013 20:36:33
Been on the Everton site quite a bit since Tues and I've got to say what an arrogant mob most of them are. I hope to god NL doesn't go near them as they don't deserve him. The way they put him and Scottish football down is nothing short of ignorance and arrogance. For a team that's not won a trophy for 18 years some of their comments are laughable. DH

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10 May 2013 19:13:10
Just heard a guy call keevins out on his various statements regarding Celtic over the years. Once again he, and that monumental pain in the ass, Duffy claimed we all miss The rangers this season. Do we? My honest opinion is I do not. Forget the Euro run, I still would not have missed them.

I would be interested as to what posters on here think. This page has some great informed posters who obviously have the club at heart. I think it would give a small insight into the mindset of Celtic fans. This includes your thoughts as well ED. green jhedi {Ed007's Note - I don't miss them in the slightest, my life has actually greatly improved since they died.}

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10 May 2013 16:49:28
the problem isn't just if lennon goes, the board is also a problem as they would have to sanction spending if they go for a" big name" and I don't see that happening I also don't see the point of moravcic or larrson keane etc as lennon gets hammered for not being experienced or tacticly unaware when we get beat would they be any better, so far they have proven not and would they be as loyal as lennon? I doubt it. the usual suspects will also get mentioned coyle, mcarthy, oneill. martinez but I hope they wouldn't get it either, one guy looks good is favre at munchengladbach good record in germany and switzerland. experienced, never going to get ahead of the big 4-5 in germany but could we be a step forward in his career ie cl? I hope lenny stays and is given funds but if he goes I hope we just don't make do or take an easy option. interesting couple of weeks/months ahead,, deep river bhoy

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10 May 2013 16:30:23
First of all if Lennon did leave I'd be sad to see him go but would wish him all the best for being nothing but loyal too our club. I read his interview saying he was distancing himself from the Everton job but what he said in the interview didn't convince me he was distancing himself. I think he wants the job and will be off if offered it. what is every one else's thoughts?

SOS BHOY

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10 May 2013 16:07:28
A couple of quotes from Lenny today;
'It's not up to me to decide if i'm ready for England, it's for other people to decide'
'Everton are a huge club with a huge history. It's flattering to be linked but that's all it is, a link'
I have to say, as a supporter of Lennon, I find that quite disrespectful to Celtic. Those statements seem to say he would take it if offered.

The first statement is fudging. Of course he would have to decide if he was ready. A club might think he was ready, but he would have to weigh the options up and decide for himself. The options would be Family and choice of club I would think.

The second statement sounds, like the oft quoted in the papers, come and get me plea. Everton are a big club, but a huge club? No matter how you gauge the size of a club I would hardly think they are huge. As for the huge history, again, not for me. In Europe they have reached one Final, winning the cup winners cup, although to be fair they did have a great side then. Do they have a bigger history than Celtic? For me no.

This now leaves the club at a crossroads. I would say he seems to be looking for a move to England. Now that's fair enough, as a professional person he wants to test himself. But has he truly proved himself in Scotland yet? If i'm being totally honest I don't think so. So what happens now? There are a few things to think about.

If he does want to go there is a fear he might start treading water here. There is also the possibility he could leave mid season, the rolling contract would tempt any suitors. Will he be fully focused on the job ahead for our club? I am not doubting for one second his professionalism, but you have to consider his eye being taken off the ball. Our squad needs reshaping, players will go and players will come in, we need 100% focus on this. I say again, I am a Lennon supporter, if he left I would wish him well. He has been through so much in his time up here he deserves nothing less. But we need him to be honest with the fans as well. We deserve nothing less than that. green jhedi

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10 May 2013 16:03:57
Hi fellas. An Everton Fan in peace. We have been linked with Neil Lennon as our replacement for David moyes. I'm just wondering what you guys have heard (if anything) and what he is like as a manager. I don't watch a lot of SPL so I don't know what to think of him. How would you react if he did leave? Is he a good manager?

Many thanks.

Everton Al.

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10 May 2013 15:49:25
I don't believe neil will be everton manager it is just a good story for msm to deflect from the ongoing troubles across the city remember MON was linked with many jobs in England when up here and had to sue twice for lies by scoop guidi

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10 May 2013 15:09:47
TO "PAT'L FIX IT"
dear pat I haven't wrote to you for a while but am doing so now in the heart felt plea that you just might be able to help me or rather my daughter Sally.
You see Sally was born with a health problem in that no matter what she eats or drinks nothing seems to work regarding her diet, which I may add is getting quite out of hand now, hence the pleading letter Pat.
Sally now weighs around the 25 stone mark now & although that's not the largest in the UK its the ongoing trauma that's affecting her & it shows psycologically at least.
You see Sally now resembles a large ball as she's not the tallest it looks even worse.
She regularly gets taunted by the local children, yes you know how cruel kids can be Pat so please help me if you can we're desperate!.
Sally won a prize in a competition to go to see her beloved rangers & be presented before the crowd 2 seasons ago but then andy goram reached out bounced her 3 times then kicked her into row ZZ of the broomloan stand, when she was in gym class with her pretty little pink outfit on she asked the teacher where to stand?
he replied "just in front of the triangle of red balls on the table!"Names like mr blobby are all too common place now, or space hopper, last time she had to go to casualty for some treatment the junior doctor said "where's the valve?
The local kids have now resorted to rolling her down the hill, fun to them but. ,
Easters a bloody nightmare Pat so please please do something to help us & end this torture for her sake, thanking you in anticipation, yours Mrs Ima Mcoist god bless you pat lots of love,
ps I've tried to write to that other chap who had a similar show on tv but to no avail!

"noo ah don't no aboot yous bit that fkn touched ma hert that nice we letter thit that wumin wrote so ah wrote bak,
" dear Ima yur weans a lardon get owur it.!
ps your ye cood contact:
forever in yur thoughts and alsae in yur hoose wee pat
ps your ye cood contact:
THE ROON WEAN SOCIETY
13 slob st
Govan iou1 tae
pps diz she get her stitches it halfords hen?
a prize of a puncture repair kit is wizzing it's way to you as we laff ta!
write agane Ima!

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10 May 2013 13:39:51
Big congratulations to Gerry Hughes. First ever deaf person to solo circumnavigate the world going past all five capes. He's Back just in time for the trophy and cup final. I hope the club sort him out with some tickets for the Saturday and the final.

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10 May 2013 13:20:43
As David Moyes reaches 500 games with Everton, tv News are doing a special interview tonight at 6pm asking him all about his achievements. Then at 6. 01pm it's back to the studio!
Welshbhoy

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10 May 2013 12:24:36
Just heard that there has been ALOT! Of money put on Neil Lennon to be the next manager of Everton in Northern Ireland does someone over there know something we don't!

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10 May 2013 11:02:00
Morning All, I heard on the radio this morning that Neil Lennon has been backed in from 12/1 to 4/7 Fav to take over at Everton, am I right in saying that there would be no compensation to us due to Neil being on a rolling contract. Sounds right up Mr Kenwrights street a man who treats every penny as a prisoner, not forgetting the most important thing here Neil Lennon was a winner as a player and has carried this on into management.

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10 May 2013 10:39:14
Hi guys. everton fan here. I know there is some rumours about NL being a candidate for our new manager. I really like lennon and his no nonsense attitude. What I am interested in knowing is what is he like as a person with his players. so does he get respect. does he have any run ins with any players. Is he good finding players with limited funds. cheers guys.

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10 May 2013 10:27:32
Does anyone seriously believe Lennon will leave Celtic for Everton? OK he will probably earn double what we currently pay, and probably a longer contract, but I do not think Lenny needs the money, I think the challenge of CL will keep him here for at least the next 2 seasons.
In my opinion, Everton would be a step down, I also read that Moyes had the equivilent of £4m a season (net) to work with.
This season I expect Celtic to release at least double that figure to strenghten our squad.
The only thing both clubs have in common is "it's a Grand old Team"
Lenny please stay and finish the job of making us a regular Champions League team. Timalloy

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10 May 2013 10:02:06
Why is everyone saying ferguson is the greatest manager ever, ally mccoist has just one a world record 55 titles in one season
Welshbhoy

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10 May 2013 09:25:47
with Lennon-Everton looking increasingly likely, who would be your pick for a replacement

My top 3 replacements would be

1 Henrik - I know he done pretty poor with that swedish team and has no real experience but let's face it- we'll win the league for the next two years, why not give him a shot, I'd be willing to give him 2 years with no real cup or european success just to give him a chance, who knows he may surprise us.

2 O'Neil- Damaged goods in england after sunderland but again, he'll win the next 2 league titles. Likes to spend money which could be sticking point but I think he'd jump at chance to rebuild his rep.

3. (wildcard) Frank Rijkaard - Huge name and out of work since managing saudi national team, built barca's great footballing style which pep continued, huge success in europe and could attract a player or two - great option if lawell and board want to push boat out for 2 years to keep fans happy, yes we'll do in some of our vast profits from last season but as long as we don't go into debt I don't care how much money we make

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10 May 2013 09:08:40
Have read on Sky that Neil is high on the agenda to go to Everton. I hope this is not the case. As much as I would like Neil to build on his success I feel he has still got a lot to fulfil at Celtic. Come on Neil stay with us for at least another season so that we can win the elusive treble and make another dent in Europe. Julieghirl.

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